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So DL changes your incoming plane which gives you a MX delay too ?

So DL changes your incoming plane which gives you a MX delay too ?

Old Jul 8, 2019, 7:20 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyerWx
Slightly less than 80% is actually better than May when 73% of DL flights were on-time (64% and 61% for UA and AA respectively). During June, DFW saw multiple strong convective storm systems move through. DL's NYC and ATL hubs also saw occasional thunderstorms. To me, 80% isn't terrible in the summertime with thunderstorms.

More on topic, I think OP saw that while Delta does move planes around, it seems they do try to minimize the overall impact to passengers.
Considering the OP's flight left MSP 11 minutes late and arrived 5 minutes early into CLE, I don't see any issue. Looks like ops knew what they were doing on that decision.

They still need to get the on time performance above 80% though. That's not acceptable IMO.
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Old Jul 8, 2019, 9:04 pm
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by SJC ORD LDR
Considering the OP's flight left MSP 11 minutes late and arrived 5 minutes early into CLE, I don't see any issue. Looks like ops knew what they were doing on that decision.

They still need to get the on time performance above 80% though. That's not acceptable IMO.
Technically Delta's A0 performance is usually in the low 70's or high 60's (which further tells you that Delta doesn't pad schedules thaaat much... ) - that is what real on-time looks like. The DOT A14 is a bit of a scam if you ask me.
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Old Jul 8, 2019, 9:19 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by exwannabe
Is DL really padded more than others?

I just random checked ATL-DFW, ALT-LAX and LAX-DFW and all 3 came in with DL having shorter planned flight time than AA (by about 5-10 minutes).
6-12 months ago I did a similar exercise on several routes where there were good "apples to apples" comparison flights on other airlines, specifically noting to compare flights departing at around the same time, because there can be big variations on a flight leaving, say, JFK at 9am vs. 6pm. Domestically, I don't think you need to control for aircraft type as I believe cruise speeds are similar on narrowbodies and the distances short enough to not matter much (but if you're comparing, say, a 767 to a 777, the latter is noticeably faster and it matters on a long-haul).

My takeaway (and I don't have the details) was that DL padded by about 5 minutes or so on average (but not every flight).

I think if you had full access to OAG you could do a real comparative analysis of flight schedules across the network, but otherwise it's just anecdotal.
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Old Jul 8, 2019, 10:03 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by ijgordon
6-12 months ago I did a similar exercise on several routes where there were good "apples to apples" comparison flights on other airlines, specifically noting to compare flights departing at around the same time, because there can be big variations on a flight leaving, say, JFK at 9am vs. 6pm. Domestically, I don't think you need to control for aircraft type as I believe cruise speeds are similar on narrowbodies and the distances short enough to not matter much (but if you're comparing, say, a 767 to a 777, the latter is noticeably faster and it matters on a long-haul).

My takeaway (and I don't have the details) was that DL padded by about 5 minutes or so on average (but not every flight).

I think if you had full access to OAG you could do a real comparative analysis of flight schedules across the network, but otherwise it's just anecdotal.
A couple times when there were schedule changes involving changes of aircraft type but not departure times, I noticed that the scheduled flight times (and arrival times) were also changed by a few minutes.
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Old Jul 9, 2019, 2:52 am
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by SJC ORD LDR
Considering the OP's flight left MSP 11 minutes late and arrived 5 minutes early into CLE, I don't see any issue. Looks like ops knew what they were doing on that decision.

They still need to get the on time performance above 80% though. That's not acceptable IMO.
It's so weird what happens when you focus isn't overwhelmingly D0 as the be-all-end-all (AA). For some reason you can still get flights arriving on time and more of your customer's get to where they want to be sooner, by making sensible swaps like they did in OP's situation.
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Old Jul 9, 2019, 2:57 am
  #21  
 
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[QUOTE=ethernal;31282621
Delta has great operations - it is the best in the industry. That said, only a portion of its stats advantage is from that. A significant portion (likely a majority) of Delta's performance advantage over its peers has to do with the airports it flies out of. SLC, MSP, DTW, and to a lesser extent ATL are all low-congestion airports. LAX may be somewhat congested but is a good weather airport. SEA has gate issues but usually plenty of runway capacity and - occasional fog issues aside - decent WX.

Compare this to United as an example... they fly out of.. SFO (significant congestion, frequent fog), EWR (significant congestion), ORD (significant congestion). The only low-congestion hubs they have are IAH and DEN. IAD is somewhat in the middle (generally not directly runway constrained, but often ATC constrained due to spillover from the crowded NE corridor).
[/QUOTE]

DL's hubs crush the competitions in terms of helping their schedule/performance. I'd argue even their gate positions at ORD is beneficial as they seem to be easier to access than AA's. But it is nice when you don't have to consistently fly a 40 minute pattern to get on the ground, and then taxi another 20-30 minutes because the airport is huge with terrible ground layout requiring you to taxi the length of the runway 3 times plus go around the backside of the terminal, and then wait another 20 minutes for either your gate to open up or the alley to clear out the line of departing planes so you can actually get to your gate.
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Old Jul 9, 2019, 6:36 am
  #22  
 
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Is there a rule that says a limit on padding? I figure there must be.
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Old Jul 9, 2019, 7:11 am
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by estedman
Is there a rule that says a limit on padding? I figure there must be.
There's no law, but keep in mind unnecessarily padding flight schedules actually costs the airline money. The airline typically also schedules airport operations such as gate utilization and ground crew work times based on scheduled time.
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Old Jul 9, 2019, 7:43 am
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyerWx
There's no law, but keep in mind unnecessarily padding flight schedules actually costs the airline money. The airline typically also schedules airport operations such as gate utilization and ground crew work times based on scheduled time.
Yes, airlines are strongly incented not to pad. Padding costs airlines a lot of money. More crew time, less aircraft utilization, and less predictable ops if "over" padded. But there is nothing stopping an airline from "having" a 95-99%+ on time percentage if they so chose (of course, their flights would be blocked so noncompetitively long that you would actually end up wasting more time on average if you have connections and not less).

That said, legacies are inherently going to target higher on-time rates than low cost point-to-point carriers (all other factors being equal - which oftentimes they are not because e.g., LCC are more likely to fly into less congested secondary airports) because they face higher secondary/indirect costs from delays (missed connections driving rebooking and potential hotel/meal vouchers depending on cause). So the marginal analysis where it makes "sense" to target an on-time rate varies depending on airlines, relative costs, c-sat objectives, and network structure.
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Old Jul 9, 2019, 9:46 am
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by Lux Flyer
It's so weird what happens when you focus isn't overwhelmingly D0 as the be-all-end-all (AA). For some reason you can still get flights arriving on time and more of your customer's get to where they want to be sooner, by making sensible swaps like they did in OP's situation.
The goal is to arrive on time. Leaving on time helps with that goal, but that's not the best metric to be obsessed with.
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Old Jul 9, 2019, 10:34 am
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by estedman
Is there a rule that says a limit on padding? I figure there must be.
Plus over blocking is going to lead to a ton of gate pressure at many airports. If 75% of flights are arriving 30-60 minutes early then they are just going to be stuck waiting for a gate at many airports.
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Old Jul 9, 2019, 12:30 pm
  #27  
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I guess I haven't experienced the inbound shuffle in a while... I typically look up the rest of the day's inbound chain of inbound flights leading up to mine, and I haven't seen a change this year. Despite some nasty delays where modifying the inbound would've significantly reduced it.

At least you didn't get the DL2949 JFK-MSY flight last night that was delayed for almost 6 hours due to MX hydraulic issue.
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Old Jul 9, 2019, 12:56 pm
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by Often1
The whole use of the term "padding" is a misnomer.

Air carriers establish their schedules to reasonably account for variables which include any number of factors. This simply means that when things work out, the aircraft is on the gate early. It is entirely appropriate and simply represents a well-educated consideration of factors which often occur.

On any given route, at any given time of day, and with a particular aircraft, any carrier may use a shorter or longer block time.
The issue, at least with DL, is that frequently when planes do arrive early, that there is no gate available, and so pax and crew end up all parked on the tarmac and awaiting for a gate to open. Arriving early is one thing, but deplaning early is quite another; the latter is less frequent than the former. That is, there is consideration in the schedules for variable factors - which is logical, of course (though the extent of it is up for debate), but there seems to be no consideration of that given - that as a result of this, or tailwinds or what not, some flights will arrive early - at the ground gate allocations, at least based on anecdotal evidence.
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Old Jul 11, 2019, 1:10 pm
  #29  
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Now my flight home is also delayed, they made up the time last time lets see if they can do it again. The incoming landed in MSP over 2 hours ago and my incoming plane was still delayed 30 mins. So on both segments I was sent the flight delayed email, same record as AA. I don't really care about going somewhere it is just for work what I care about is getting home, I only get 2 days home a week. Weather is not a factor nice here at AZO and in MSP

EDI : Both App and DL say my incoming is still awaiting takeoff at MSP - Flightaware shows it at 29,000 feet and arriving in 40 mins. ... ???

Last edited by dgparent; Jul 11, 2019 at 1:42 pm
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Old Jul 11, 2019, 3:02 pm
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by dgparent
Now my flight home is also delayed, they made up the time last time lets see if they can do it again. The incoming landed in MSP over 2 hours ago and my incoming plane was still delayed 30 mins. So on both segments I was sent the flight delayed email, same record as AA. I don't really care about going somewhere it is just for work what I care about is getting home, I only get 2 days home a week. Weather is not a factor nice here at AZO and in MSP

EDI : Both App and DL say my incoming is still awaiting takeoff at MSP - Flightaware shows it at 29,000 feet and arriving in 40 mins. ... ???
Oh no. You're going to be about 5 - 10 minutes late. Hope your day doesn't get too messed up.
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