International Travel Help for a DL Newbie
Jul 6, 2019, 9:07 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Richmond, CA
Programs: Delta PM; Marriott Plat; Hilton Gold; Hertz Pres
Posts: 72
International Travel Help for a DL Newbie
I am not sure if this has been answered in another thread or not, if so please redirect me.
I have been successful in obtaining PM for the last 3 years using the DL AMEX Reserve to waive the MQD. Lounge access has made a world of difference for layovers and I would like to improve my flight quality. My domestic travel is slightly limited but I will cross (either direction) the pond for a quick getaway to rack up the MQMs. The questions I have are:
-Fly DL or a partner airline?
* I don't understand the advantages/disadvantages or DL/AF/KE/etc metal vs operated.
-Using miles or miles+cash does not allow for the accrual of MQMs, correct?
* When and what do you redeem Skypesos for?
-Are there any tips on "UG" to premiere/business cabin for international travel or do I just have to pay?
For example, I am flying KE from SFO-MNL-SFO in September and to upgrade to business is about a $3k difference. I've followed FT and Rene's and I still haven't been able to figure out the international travel hack yet.
Thanks in advance!!!
I have been successful in obtaining PM for the last 3 years using the DL AMEX Reserve to waive the MQD. Lounge access has made a world of difference for layovers and I would like to improve my flight quality. My domestic travel is slightly limited but I will cross (either direction) the pond for a quick getaway to rack up the MQMs. The questions I have are:
-Fly DL or a partner airline?
* I don't understand the advantages/disadvantages or DL/AF/KE/etc metal vs operated.
-Using miles or miles+cash does not allow for the accrual of MQMs, correct?
* When and what do you redeem Skypesos for?
-Are there any tips on "UG" to premiere/business cabin for international travel or do I just have to pay?
For example, I am flying KE from SFO-MNL-SFO in September and to upgrade to business is about a $3k difference. I've followed FT and Rene's and I still haven't been able to figure out the international travel hack yet.
Thanks in advance!!!
Last edited by cjjones051; Jul 6, 2019 at 9:21 am
Jul 6, 2019, 9:47 am
#2
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM. 1MM
Posts: 2,045
KE is the worst in that they do not allow advance seat assignment if booking on delta.com as a codeshare on KE metal. Seat assignment is at check in so if you are flying KE make sure you are first in line when the KE counter opens up usually 3 hours before flight.
AF/KLM allow free "priority seating" for DL PM+ but you will not get any upgrades to their premium economy. Op Ups are rare as partner airlines will prefer their own elites before dipping into DL elites/Skyteam +. Recently I scored the upper deck bulkhead on AF A380 for September travel CDG-JFK. This as advance seat assignment selection complimentary. Good integration now between DL & AF/KLM systems.
I always prefer Delta metal hands down. But for asia they can be limited sure. Great fares on USA-PVG right now which allows some connections on China Eastern, etc. China transit visa is helpful here but pay careful attention to the rules. I've always entered China with on a tourist visa.
Jul 6, 2019, 10:17 am
#3
Join Date: Dec 2011
Programs: DL DM PM
Posts: 2,033
Using Miles + Cash in the Pay-With-Miles option for all or part of your fare will earn you MQM but not MQD beyond the amount you pay as Cash (but you've stated you don't care about that).
The only disadvantage with the Pay-With-Miles is that it's poorer value per SkyPeso, but if you care about MQM then that's the way to go.
I use my miles to upgrade if on a miles-upgradeable international fare (rare - I generally buy D1 or use a GUC) or use them for partial Pay-With-Miles to get D1. Or I'll use them for an award when booking too late to get a good fare in D1, but that is rare. I'd say most of my mile use is pay-with-miles, because MQM are a big factor.
Jul 6, 2019, 11:47 am
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Richmond, CA
Programs: Delta PM; Marriott Plat; Hilton Gold; Hertz Pres
Posts: 72
Booking an award flight using miles will not earn you MQM (or RDM).
Using Miles + Cash in the Pay-With-Miles option for all or part of your fare will earn you MQM but not MQD beyond the amount you pay as Cash (but you've stated you don't care about that).
The only disadvantage with the Pay-With-Miles is that it's poorer value per SkyPeso, but if you care about MQM then that's the way to go.
I use my miles to upgrade if on a miles-upgradeable international fare (rare - I generally buy D1 or use a GUC) or use them for partial Pay-With-Miles to get D1. Or I'll use them for an award when booking too late to get a good fare in D1, but that is rare. I'd say most of my mile use is pay-with-miles, because MQM are a big factor.
Using Miles + Cash in the Pay-With-Miles option for all or part of your fare will earn you MQM but not MQD beyond the amount you pay as Cash (but you've stated you don't care about that).
The only disadvantage with the Pay-With-Miles is that it's poorer value per SkyPeso, but if you care about MQM then that's the way to go.
I use my miles to upgrade if on a miles-upgradeable international fare (rare - I generally buy D1 or use a GUC) or use them for partial Pay-With-Miles to get D1. Or I'll use them for an award when booking too late to get a good fare in D1, but that is rare. I'd say most of my mile use is pay-with-miles, because MQM are a big factor.
Jul 6, 2019, 12:01 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Richmond, CA
Programs: Delta PM; Marriott Plat; Hilton Gold; Hertz Pres
Posts: 72
As a PM, if flying on delta metal you will get complimentary upgrade to Comfort+ shortly after booking main cabin. Assuming C+ cabin has seats available.
KE is the worst in that they do not allow advance seat assignment if booking on delta.com as a codeshare on KE metal. Seat assignment is at check in so if you are flying KE make sure you are first in line when the KE counter opens up usually 3 hours before flight.
AF/KLM allow free "priority seating" for DL PM+ but you will not get any upgrades to their premium economy. Op Ups are rare as partner airlines will prefer their own elites before dipping into DL elites/Skyteam +. Recently I scored the upper deck bulkhead on AF A380 for September travel CDG-JFK. This as advance seat assignment selection complimentary. Good integration now between DL & AF/KLM systems.
I always prefer Delta metal hands down. But for asia they can be limited sure. Great fares on USA-PVG right now which allows some connections on China Eastern, etc. China transit visa is helpful here but pay careful attention to the rules. I've always entered China with on a tourist visa.
KE is the worst in that they do not allow advance seat assignment if booking on delta.com as a codeshare on KE metal. Seat assignment is at check in so if you are flying KE make sure you are first in line when the KE counter opens up usually 3 hours before flight.
AF/KLM allow free "priority seating" for DL PM+ but you will not get any upgrades to their premium economy. Op Ups are rare as partner airlines will prefer their own elites before dipping into DL elites/Skyteam +. Recently I scored the upper deck bulkhead on AF A380 for September travel CDG-JFK. This as advance seat assignment selection complimentary. Good integration now between DL & AF/KLM systems.
I always prefer Delta metal hands down. But for asia they can be limited sure. Great fares on USA-PVG right now which allows some connections on China Eastern, etc. China transit visa is helpful here but pay careful attention to the rules. I've always entered China with on a tourist visa.
The UG for partner airlines vs Skyteam+ makes sense.
Is there a ranking amongst the Chinese Skyteam members, I have only flown China Eastern in coach and it left a lot to be desired.
I assumed that DL metal didn't provide the same level of service that I have seen with the partner airlines, I figured DL metal was good if I ran into a problem because they are usually great with service recovery.
Jul 6, 2019, 12:24 pm
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,021
That is interesting, when I called DL, they told me that I wouldn't earn MQMs on award tickets or miles+cash tickets. When DL told me that, I figured miles were useless, I'm glad to know I can redeem miles with cash for tickets and earn MQMs. This will help as I book international travel for the future. Do you have a calculation as to what is a good mileage rate when redeeming? I found old award charts for DL but those charts don't apply in this case.
Last edited by xliioper; Jul 6, 2019 at 12:30 pm
Jul 6, 2019, 1:04 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Richmond, CA
Programs: Delta PM; Marriott Plat; Hilton Gold; Hertz Pres
Posts: 72
The agent was correct. There are two different programs here. Miles+Cash tickets (booked via the award booking search) are treated as award tickets and earn nothing. Pay with Miles is a different option only open to DL Amex cardholders where you can partially pay for a revenue ticket with miles at the rate of 1 cent per mile at checkout. Pay with Miles tickets are treated as revenue tickets and earn MQM's. Both of these options are only open for all Delta metal flight bookings. If there are any partner flights in a reservation, it will disqualify the itin from these options.
Does C+ clear the same way for intl as is does for domestic then?
Jul 6, 2019, 1:11 pm
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,040
Yes C+ clears same way. Note if you book a DL metal flight as a codeshare that upgrades can only be done on DoD instead of at normal upgrade window. This also applies for domestic F upgrades.
Jul 6, 2019, 2:25 pm
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Richmond, CA
Programs: Delta PM; Marriott Plat; Hilton Gold; Hertz Pres
Posts: 72
Is codesharing when you book through a partner airline but they use DL metal or when I've booked on the DL website but at the gate it will say operated by...? Does the flight # always a "DL"?
If DL states that they don't do complimentary intl UG but they will clear C+, doesn't that mean C+ isn't an upgrade (domestic/intl) regardless of what DL markets?
Jul 6, 2019, 2:47 pm
#10
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,278
* I don't understand the advantages/disadvantages or DL/AF/KE/etc metal vs operated.
Is codesharing when you book through a partner airline but they use DL metal or when I've booked on the DL website but at the gate it will say operated by...? Does the flight # always a "DL"?
If DL states that they don't do complimentary intl UG but they will clear C+, doesn't that mean C+ isn't an upgrade (domestic/intl) regardless of what DL markets?
Is codesharing when you book through a partner airline but they use DL metal or when I've booked on the DL website but at the gate it will say operated by...? Does the flight # always a "DL"?
If DL states that they don't do complimentary intl UG but they will clear C+, doesn't that mean C+ isn't an upgrade (domestic/intl) regardless of what DL markets?
Codeshare is a flight marketed by a partner airline but operated by someone else. So yes it's the "operated by" stuff. As an example AF2410 is a flight from MSP-ORD; obviously AF doesn't fly that route, but DL does. AF partners with DL to put their flight number on the DL flight to allow their passengers to book all "AF flights" and expand their global network. From a systems end and non-frequent flyer passenger perspective it is easier when all the flights are listed as the same carrier, even if they aren't operating them. This also probably dates to a time when their systems were less integrated so it was easier for an airline to sell their own marketed flight instead of a partner's. So AF2410 is a codeshare flight operated by Delta as DL1510. Your MQM/MQD/Reward mile earnings will differ if you fly on a codeshare flight vs. DL flight number, see the earnings charts on DL.com
Technically the C+ is still an upgrade, and requires inventory on international flights (as another thread in this forum recently pointed out). For all intents and purposes it is still in the economy cabin, whereas PS and D1 are separate cabins which they won't complementary upgrade to.
Jul 6, 2019, 2:57 pm
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Richmond, CA
Programs: Delta PM; Marriott Plat; Hilton Gold; Hertz Pres
Posts: 72
Advantages/disadvantages of metal are the product and the service you'll receive. As a DL elite if you're on their metal you'll be eligible for all your Medallion Benefits. If you're on partner airline metal you'll only be granted the SkyTeam elite/elite + benefits, and you'll be behind any of the partner's own elites to receive beneifts. There's debate over the various hard/soft products each airline has in terms of seats, on board service, etc.
Codeshare is a flight marketed by a partner airline but operated by someone else. So yes it's the "operated by" stuff. As an example AF2410 is a flight from MSP-ORD; obviously AF doesn't fly that route, but DL does. AF partners with DL to put their flight number on the DL flight to allow their passengers to book all "AF flights" and expand their global network. From a systems end and non-frequent flyer passenger perspective it is easier when all the flights are listed as the same carrier, even if they aren't operating them. This also probably dates to a time when their systems were less integrated so it was easier for an airline to sell their own marketed flight instead of a partner's. So AF2410 is a codeshare flight operated by Delta as DL1510. Your MQM/MQD/Reward mile earnings will differ if you fly on a codeshare flight vs. DL flight number, see the earnings charts on DL.com
Technically the C+ is still an upgrade, and requires inventory on international flights (as another thread in this forum recently pointed out). For all intents and purposes it is still in the economy cabin, whereas PS and D1 are separate cabins which they won't complementary upgrade to.
Codeshare is a flight marketed by a partner airline but operated by someone else. So yes it's the "operated by" stuff. As an example AF2410 is a flight from MSP-ORD; obviously AF doesn't fly that route, but DL does. AF partners with DL to put their flight number on the DL flight to allow their passengers to book all "AF flights" and expand their global network. From a systems end and non-frequent flyer passenger perspective it is easier when all the flights are listed as the same carrier, even if they aren't operating them. This also probably dates to a time when their systems were less integrated so it was easier for an airline to sell their own marketed flight instead of a partner's. So AF2410 is a codeshare flight operated by Delta as DL1510. Your MQM/MQD/Reward mile earnings will differ if you fly on a codeshare flight vs. DL flight number, see the earnings charts on DL.com
Technically the C+ is still an upgrade, and requires inventory on international flights (as another thread in this forum recently pointed out). For all intents and purposes it is still in the economy cabin, whereas PS and D1 are separate cabins which they won't complementary upgrade to.
Thanks for the explanation, that was extremely helpful.