ND76

I'm fascinated with the aerial photograph of ATL in post #31 . Thank you for posting this.

A few questions:

1. Is the northernmost east west runway the current 8R-26L?
2. Is the building in between the east-west runways at the right side of the photo part of today's TechOp shops?
3. Was the neighborhood between the east-west runways at the west side of the photo part of College Park, GA? (I ask this because I remember seeing a map of ATL as it existed in 1981, where Delta's gates in Concourse A and the southern half of Concourse B were in College Park; and Eastern's gates in the north half of B and all of C were in Atlanta).
4. Is the southernmost runway the current 9R-27L?

I was at MCI on Monday morning and saw the construction on the new main terminal. They knocked down Terminal A and have much of the steel superstructure in place. It appeared to me that MCI will have midfield terminals. At present, Delta is at the far end of Terminal B, operating gates 56-60 (where they've been for at least the last 20 years). AA and AS are now in Terminal C.

ATOBTTR

Northernmost runway at ATL is 8L-26R.

Kevin AA

It is ridiculous to claim that the SLC terminal re-construction makes it a "new airport".

An airport is a plot of land with one or more runways suitable for fixed-wing aircraft to land or take off (i.e. not a helicopter pad). Optional add-ons include aircraft parking areas and one or more terminal buildings to support passenger/cargo/maintenance operations. In theory you could land and take off at an airport with no terminal at all but I'm sure there are zero like that with scheduled flights in the whole world as it would be inconvenient in inclement weather. But it would still count as an airport.

Demolishing the terminal and building a new terminal does not make it a new airport. It makes it a new terminal. Even the Atlanta reconstruction didn't count as a new airport even though they built east-west runways and tore up the original crosswind runways (plus the terminal, of course) because it's the same plot of land.

New house on the same land = new terminal at the same airport

If you knocked down the old house, sold the land to someone else, bought another plot of land, and built a new house on it, it would not only be a new house, it would be a new piece of developed real estate. A different location on the plat map = new airport.

DLASflyer

Director of said airport disagrees with you. "Everything that exists today that people would identify as the airport – I’m not talking about the runways and the taxiways, but all of the terminal buildings, the concourses, the parking facilities – will be completely gone and replaced by a brand new airport."
https://www.internationalairportrevi...-airport-hubs/
(Great new article about the SLC airport)

amanuensis

Using his holistic definition, KevinAA is of course correct. But using the airport director's more limited definition, DLASflyer is also correct.

In addition to scheduled passenger flights and cargo, the SLC airport also does military flights, charters, and general aviation. From the perspective of passengers and cargo, it is a new airport because, quoting the director, "everything ... that people would identify as the airport" has been (or soon will be) replaced. But all of that is on the west side of the airport grounds. Over on the east side, where the GA, charter and military play, the changes are minor. And the runways have not, as part of this project, changed at all. So, not a new airport. (Runway changes could be included in the new long-term master plan that is now being developed.)

So, everyone is right, no one is wrong. Let's all join hands (in a metaphorical COVID-19 approved sense, of course) and sing Kumbaya.

Oakshadow

An “off topic” question here.

The distance from TSA to the far western part of A (it seems the far gates will be A1, A2, etc.) looks crazy long. With no train like in DTW, does anyone know the walk time from TSA to the far western A gates inclusive of using the moving walkways?

Kevin AA

The airport director is appealing to the lowest common denominator... passengers who fly out of SLC and have no clue that the plane they're in is using the same runway as before. It's much more exciting for people to hear "new airport" than it is to hear "new terminal". If you're in an aisle seat, or in a window seat and don't know the layout of the airport, you could be easily convinced you're at a new airport.

The typical window seat passenger has no idea what runway they're on. It's easier to tell from the cockpit, of course, but if you know where to look before take-off, you can see the red signs with white lettering. If you're really familiar with the airport, you can tell which runway you're going to land on. Almost no one does that.

I'm very familiar with DFW and I can tell which runway we're going to land on by looking out the window at landmarks. One time I remember coming in and I could not figure out which runway we were headed for. I thought "well, we are supposed to be landing at DFW, but I wouldn't be surprised if we are headed for the wrong airport because I am totally lost". It was because we landed on runway 13R which is rare (and my first of only two times).

Mountain Explorer

I am completely mystified by the passion of this new airport vs new terminal debate. What difference does it make?

And this notion that the airport director is taking advantage of naive window seat passengers who don't recognize runways. Give me a break! Nobody is saying, or pretending, that the runways are new. There is no conspiracy to con passengers into believing that. This whole thing is ridiculous, IMO.

Kevin AA

Actually that is exactly what the airport director is saying:

That would be amazing if we could board a 737 and take off with no runway needed.

Mountain Explorer

Where did the airport director say that the runways are new?

Kevin AA

He didn't. He said that "everything" (his words) that passengers would identify as an airport will be brand new. So apparently there's no need for runways any longer. I am really looking forward to this new mode of transport.

If he's going to lie to people and say it's a new airport, he needs to change his title to "terminal director" and nominate someone else to be the real airport director.

amanuensis

I'm not hearing any singing.

Okay, can we all agree that the new SLC will be < a new airport, but > a new terminal? In addition to the new terminal, there is also:

• a new elevated roadway
• a new Utah Transit Authority light rail station (will not be ready by Sep, so initially a hike to get to the old one)
• a new Central Utility Plant
• a new parking garage
• a new Rental Car Service Facility
• and of course all new concourses and gates

https://www.slcairport.com/thenewslc...lc-fact-sheet/

Mountain Explorer

Doesn't look that far to me at all. From the picture, you'd have to walk past 9 gates on either side to reach the furthest A gate. Very normal for an airport.

Walking time is highly dependent on the person doing the walking. With moving walkways, probably about 5 minutes for me.

The longer walk will be from the terminal, thru the tunnel, to B1. That will probably be 8-9 minutes for me.

Kevin AA

"Terminal" and "concourse" can get mixed up, but most people are capable of distinguishing "new airport" from "new terminal/concourses/facilities/etc". A new airport would have to be built in some place like Grantsville since everything east of SLC is developed, southwest is mountainous, and north is water. SLC is not like Stapleton or Dallas Love Field where it's too small and can't be expanded because of urban development, so I can't imagine it would ever need to be torn down and built elsewhere. Even LAX and ATL are still there and those places are much more busy.

In ATL the terminal is the ticketing area and baggage claim and then there are several concourses of gates A-F. You can go from the terminal to a concourse and not think much of it because they are connected. In 1960's LAX, the difference was clear. The terminal was next to the roadway, then you took an underground tunnel to the concourses (also called satellites). Unlike ATL, there was a clear distinction between the two because the airplanes could taxi around to any gate (since expanded, and now terminal/concourse are contiguous, with more gates).

Besides DEN and AUS, another new airport that kept the same airport code is SGU. I flew to the old SGU many years ago on an EMB-120 from SLC. It was on a mesa, uphill from St. George. Recently I flew to the new SGU which is south of town. They did this so they could have a longer runway that can accommodate RJ's.

DCAhome

We are not the first to debate this. Plutarch questions whether the Ship of Theseus would remain the same if it were entirely replaced, piece by piece.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus