Lithium batteries and Delta's abandonment of common sense
Jun 30, 2019, 11:27 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, DL DM since inception, 3+ MM, HH Gold, SPG-Gold
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Posts: 1,838
Lithium batteries and Delta's abandonment of common sense
OK, so I am sucker - persuaded by commercials and reviews, I bought myself an AWAY Cary-On luggage, the brand being one of the first offering a battery in the luggage to charge your smart-whatever. After getting into problems with enclosing it in an inaccessible compartment, AWAY now locates their battery, which is no different than any other battery everybody carries with them, in an accessible compartment close to the handle, with an opening that permits you to connect your i.e. phone directly to the battery like you do to any portable lithium battery - which I have carried in my old carry-on's forever. And yes, I am fully aware of not putting any of these batteries in my checked luggage
On my third connection (ORD-SLC 6:55PM 6/26/19) traveling with my new Carry-on, the gate agent as I boarded, took a look at the carry-on and asked "is your battery removed from it's compartment?" and I answered: "It is a battery like any other not connected to anything, and placed like my toothbrush in the luggage" - she looked puzzled, and I boarded. Just before the doors were to be closed, 3 (yes three!) agents, the gate agent and two flight attendants approached my seat and the male FA sternly asked me: "Sir, do you have a lithium battery in your carry-on luggage"? - I answered "yes" and he said "FAA regulations mandates you remove it as otherwise we can not take off". Having learned never to argue with FA's no matter what the reason, I asked "so you want me to remove it from one pocket in the luggage to put it into another pocket"? and he said "yes, that is the regulation". So I went out of my seat under the watchful eyes of the 3 agents/FAs, opened the overhead compartment, unzipped the pocket the battery was located in, unzipped the pocket just below it and asked "is it OK if I put in this pocket" and he answered "yes, that is fine" so I did that, closed the overhead bin with everybody breathing a sigh of relief as the flight now could take off.
Obviously this is nuts! - afterwards doing a search, i found that the concern had to do with when AWAY initially having enclosed their battery in an inaccessible compartment - but with lithium batter "bra-hoo-ha", that now all the "smart carry-on" makers make an area in the luggage +/- their specific battery "designated" for said (or any other) battery, Delta, I found out, is one of the only airlines who apparently persists in wanting to play the same eye rolling stupid game as the servers in some airport lounges asking to see your ID for proof of being of legal drinking age even though you are 60+ years old
FAA says that "loose lithium batteries" provided by the luggage maker are OK to bring on board in carry-ons, and basically all other Airlines have no problems with this (i.,e. American) - But Delta clearly has decided to take a stance for nonsense like the act I had to perform in front of their staff, by taking a loose battery from one pocket in my carry-on, and placing it in a pocket next to it.
Honestly, I thought Delta was better than that.
(If I have another episode like this - I will send the luggage back!)
On my third connection (ORD-SLC 6:55PM 6/26/19) traveling with my new Carry-on, the gate agent as I boarded, took a look at the carry-on and asked "is your battery removed from it's compartment?" and I answered: "It is a battery like any other not connected to anything, and placed like my toothbrush in the luggage" - she looked puzzled, and I boarded. Just before the doors were to be closed, 3 (yes three!) agents, the gate agent and two flight attendants approached my seat and the male FA sternly asked me: "Sir, do you have a lithium battery in your carry-on luggage"? - I answered "yes" and he said "FAA regulations mandates you remove it as otherwise we can not take off". Having learned never to argue with FA's no matter what the reason, I asked "so you want me to remove it from one pocket in the luggage to put it into another pocket"? and he said "yes, that is the regulation". So I went out of my seat under the watchful eyes of the 3 agents/FAs, opened the overhead compartment, unzipped the pocket the battery was located in, unzipped the pocket just below it and asked "is it OK if I put in this pocket" and he answered "yes, that is fine" so I did that, closed the overhead bin with everybody breathing a sigh of relief as the flight now could take off.
Obviously this is nuts! - afterwards doing a search, i found that the concern had to do with when AWAY initially having enclosed their battery in an inaccessible compartment - but with lithium batter "bra-hoo-ha", that now all the "smart carry-on" makers make an area in the luggage +/- their specific battery "designated" for said (or any other) battery, Delta, I found out, is one of the only airlines who apparently persists in wanting to play the same eye rolling stupid game as the servers in some airport lounges asking to see your ID for proof of being of legal drinking age even though you are 60+ years old
FAA says that "loose lithium batteries" provided by the luggage maker are OK to bring on board in carry-ons, and basically all other Airlines have no problems with this (i.,e. American) - But Delta clearly has decided to take a stance for nonsense like the act I had to perform in front of their staff, by taking a loose battery from one pocket in my carry-on, and placing it in a pocket next to it.
Honestly, I thought Delta was better than that.
(If I have another episode like this - I will send the luggage back!)
Last edited by Flying_Duck; Jun 30, 2019 at 11:39 pm Reason: spelling
Jul 1, 2019, 12:11 am
#2
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.7MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,947
This is absolutely Delta's policy. From delta.com:
https://news.delta.com/delta-puts-li...afety-concerns
As an electrical engineer who works with Lithium Ion batteries regularly, these are scary, scary things with a ton of energy potential. The reason you have to remove it is so the battery module can be placed in one of the lithium ion fire containment bags that are now carried onboard in case of a fire. If the battery is docked in a suitcase, you're not going to be able to safely unlatch and remove it if it's on fire, and you're not going to be able to get it into the containment bag because the suitcase will be too big. It's not an unreasonable request - it's a legitimate safety concern.
I strongly recommend finding another brand of luggage - not just because of this hassle, but also because Away is overpriced for the quality you receive. Lots of other great options out there! If you otherwise like the suitcase, just leave the battery pack at home and carry a higher quality one (I recommend Anker).
https://news.delta.com/delta-puts-li...afety-concerns
Customers checking a smart bag with a removable lithium ion battery must remove it and take it with them into the cabin. Customers carrying-on a smart bag containing a removable lithium ion battery must remove it from the designed enclosure prior to boarding the aircraft. This is consistent with Delta's policy today requiring customers to place spare lithium-ion batteries in their carry-on luggage.
I strongly recommend finding another brand of luggage - not just because of this hassle, but also because Away is overpriced for the quality you receive. Lots of other great options out there! If you otherwise like the suitcase, just leave the battery pack at home and carry a higher quality one (I recommend Anker).
Jul 1, 2019, 12:13 am
#3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.7MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,947
(Here's IATA's assessment of the risk of smart bags: )
https://www.iata.org/whatwedo/safety...lectronics.pdf
Cabin firefighting proceduresFirefighting procedures require that any lithium battery showing signs of overheating should be cooled as quickly as possible using water or non-flammable liquid.The majority of PEDs powered by lithium batteries are held and/or used during flight. Passengers and cabin crew are therefore more able to identify an overheating device and take appropriate action to cool it before the point of ignition. In the case of batteries installed within carry-on bags, these are more difficult to identify at an early stage, due to their stowage in the cabin. This should be considered in the safety risk assessment.To effectively cool an overheating lithium battery either before or after ignition, the battery should be fully immersed in water or non-flammable liquid where possible. Where a battery is not able to be removed quickly or safely, the device in which it is contained should be immersed in water. Where the overheated device is the size of a carry-on bag, it is unable to be fully immersed in water or placed in a fire containment device. This is a considerable hazard and should be carefully considered by the operator before determining a policy on acceptance for carriage
Jul 1, 2019, 12:59 am
#4
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,884
OK, so I am sucker - persuaded by commercials and reviews, I bought myself an AWAY Cary-On luggage, the brand being one of the first offering a battery in the luggage to charge your smart-whatever. After getting into problems with enclosing it in an inaccessible compartment, AWAY now locates their battery, which is no different than any other battery everybody carries with them, in an accessible compartment close to the handle, with an opening that permits you to connect your i.e. phone directly to the battery like you do to any portable lithium battery - which I have carried in my old carry-on's forever. And yes, I am fully aware of not putting any of these batteries in my checked luggage
On my third connection (ORD-SLC 6:55PM 6/26/19) traveling with my new Carry-on, the gate agent as I boarded, took a look at the carry-on and asked "is your battery removed from it's compartment?" and I answered: "It is a battery like any other not connected to anything, and placed like my toothbrush in the luggage" - she looked puzzled, and I boarded. Just before the doors were to be closed, 3 (yes three!) agents, the gate agent and two flight attendants approached my seat and the male FA sternly asked me: "Sir, do you have a lithium battery in your carry-on luggage"? - I answered "yes" and he said "FAA regulations mandates you remove it as otherwise we can not take off". Having learned never to argue with FA's no matter what the reason, I asked "so you want me to remove it from one pocket in the luggage to put it into another pocket"? and he said "yes, that is the regulation". So I went out of my seat under the watchful eyes of the 3 agents/FAs, opened the overhead compartment, unzipped the pocket the battery was located in, unzipped the pocket just below it and asked "is it OK if I put in this pocket" and he answered "yes, that is fine" so I did that, closed the overhead bin with everybody breathing a sigh of relief as the flight now could take off.
Obviously this is nuts! - afterwards doing a search, i found that the concern had to do with when AWAY initially having enclosed their battery in an inaccessible compartment - but with lithium batter "bra-hoo-ha", that now all the "smart carry-on" makers make an area in the luggage +/- their specific battery "designated" for said (or any other) battery, Delta, I found out, is one of the only airlines who apparently persists in wanting to play the same eye rolling stupid game as the servers in some airport lounges asking to see your ID for proof of being of legal drinking age even though you are 60+ years old
FAA says that "loose lithium batteries" provided by the luggage maker are OK to bring on board in carry-ons, and basically all other Airlines have no problems with this (i.,e. American) - But Delta clearly has decided to take a stance for nonsense like the act I had to perform in front of their staff, by taking a loose battery from one pocket in my carry-on, and placing it in a pocket next to it.
Honestly, I thought Delta was better than that.
(If I have another episode like this - I will send the luggage back!)
On my third connection (ORD-SLC 6:55PM 6/26/19) traveling with my new Carry-on, the gate agent as I boarded, took a look at the carry-on and asked "is your battery removed from it's compartment?" and I answered: "It is a battery like any other not connected to anything, and placed like my toothbrush in the luggage" - she looked puzzled, and I boarded. Just before the doors were to be closed, 3 (yes three!) agents, the gate agent and two flight attendants approached my seat and the male FA sternly asked me: "Sir, do you have a lithium battery in your carry-on luggage"? - I answered "yes" and he said "FAA regulations mandates you remove it as otherwise we can not take off". Having learned never to argue with FA's no matter what the reason, I asked "so you want me to remove it from one pocket in the luggage to put it into another pocket"? and he said "yes, that is the regulation". So I went out of my seat under the watchful eyes of the 3 agents/FAs, opened the overhead compartment, unzipped the pocket the battery was located in, unzipped the pocket just below it and asked "is it OK if I put in this pocket" and he answered "yes, that is fine" so I did that, closed the overhead bin with everybody breathing a sigh of relief as the flight now could take off.
Obviously this is nuts! - afterwards doing a search, i found that the concern had to do with when AWAY initially having enclosed their battery in an inaccessible compartment - but with lithium batter "bra-hoo-ha", that now all the "smart carry-on" makers make an area in the luggage +/- their specific battery "designated" for said (or any other) battery, Delta, I found out, is one of the only airlines who apparently persists in wanting to play the same eye rolling stupid game as the servers in some airport lounges asking to see your ID for proof of being of legal drinking age even though you are 60+ years old
FAA says that "loose lithium batteries" provided by the luggage maker are OK to bring on board in carry-ons, and basically all other Airlines have no problems with this (i.,e. American) - But Delta clearly has decided to take a stance for nonsense like the act I had to perform in front of their staff, by taking a loose battery from one pocket in my carry-on, and placing it in a pocket next to it.
Honestly, I thought Delta was better than that.
(If I have another episode like this - I will send the luggage back!)
I'm confused!
Jul 1, 2019, 1:11 am
#5
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 4,160
asked "is your battery removed from it's compartment?" and I answered: "It is a battery like any other not connected to anything, and placed like my toothbrush in the luggage" - she looked puzzled, and I boarded
IME trying to be smart and giving an involved answer is just asking for drama. It‘s a simple yes/no question. Agent doesn’t make the policy and is not in a position to evaluate or really challenge the basis for that policy. So when you basically say “no” but using 10x as many words as you needed to, what were you expecting to happen?!
Jul 1, 2019, 5:45 am
#6
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Iowa...Delta Charter Diamond, now Gold
Posts: 2,066
This is absolutely Delta's policy. From delta.com:
https://news.delta.com/delta-puts-li...afety-concerns
As an electrical engineer who works with Lithium Ion batteries regularly, these are scary, scary things with a ton of energy potential. The reason you have to remove it is so the battery module can be placed in one of the lithium ion fire containment bags that are now carried onboard in case of a fire. If the battery is docked in a suitcase, you're not going to be able to safely unlatch and remove it if it's on fire, and you're not going to be able to get it into the containment bag because the suitcase will be too big. It's not an unreasonable request - it's a legitimate safety concern.
I strongly recommend finding another brand of luggage - not just because of this hassle, but also because Away is overpriced for the quality you receive. Lots of other great options out there! If you otherwise like the suitcase, just leave the battery pack at home and carry a higher quality one (I recommend Anker).
https://news.delta.com/delta-puts-li...afety-concerns
As an electrical engineer who works with Lithium Ion batteries regularly, these are scary, scary things with a ton of energy potential. The reason you have to remove it is so the battery module can be placed in one of the lithium ion fire containment bags that are now carried onboard in case of a fire. If the battery is docked in a suitcase, you're not going to be able to safely unlatch and remove it if it's on fire, and you're not going to be able to get it into the containment bag because the suitcase will be too big. It's not an unreasonable request - it's a legitimate safety concern.
I strongly recommend finding another brand of luggage - not just because of this hassle, but also because Away is overpriced for the quality you receive. Lots of other great options out there! If you otherwise like the suitcase, just leave the battery pack at home and carry a higher quality one (I recommend Anker).
Jul 1, 2019, 6:40 am
#7
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: MSP
Programs: DL GM, MR Gold, Hilton Gold, National Exec
Posts: 534
If the battery is on fire, the mechanism to remove it from the dock is likely damaged.
Jul 1, 2019, 7:27 am
#8
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 8,184
https://blog.alaskaair.com/travel-ti...e-containment/
This FAA training video is from before the fire containment bags were deployed but shows the challenge lithium battery fires present.
Jul 1, 2019, 8:43 am
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
I bought myself an AWAY Cary-On luggage, the brand being one of the first offering a battery in the luggage to charge your smart-whatever. After getting into problems with enclosing it in an inaccessible compartment, AWAY now locates their battery, which is no different than any other battery everybody carries with them, in an accessible compartment close to the handle,
If the battery is docked in a suitcase, you're not going to be able to safely unlatch and remove it if it's on fire, and you're not going to be able to get it into the containment bag because the suitcase will be too big. It's not an unreasonable request - it's a legitimate safety concern.
I strongly recommend finding another brand of luggage - not just because of this hassle, but also because Away is overpriced for the quality you receive.
I strongly recommend finding another brand of luggage - not just because of this hassle, but also because Away is overpriced for the quality you receive.
Jul 1, 2019, 8:45 am
#10
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,097
I mean, I get it, I'm one of the biggest anti-authoritarians out there, but OP should do a few things:
1) pick your battles
2) realize that sometimes there are reasons for the policy even if you're unaware of them
3) direct your ire at the person responsible for (what you think of as) "dumb" policies rather than the person you happen to be talking to
1) pick your battles
2) realize that sometimes there are reasons for the policy even if you're unaware of them
3) direct your ire at the person responsible for (what you think of as) "dumb" policies rather than the person you happen to be talking to
Jul 1, 2019, 10:31 am
#11
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 92
I've always wondered where the coin-sized lithium batteries fit into the scheme of things in terms of both flight regulations and actual danger. (i.e. CR2032 and smaller) What if they're in the original package, installed in a tiny flameless candle, etc. etc.
Jul 1, 2019, 11:05 am
#12
Join Date: Aug 2018
Programs: SkyMiles, HHonors, Marriott
Posts: 129
Lithium batteries (such as those used in flameless candles or car remotes) are different from lithium ion batteries, which are rechargeable and used in things like phones, tablets, shavers, etc. That's why they specify "lithium-ion" rather than just "lithium", because there are actually several battery types that use lithium as a key element.
Jul 1, 2019, 11:08 am
#13
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: BNA
Programs: DL GM, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,027
Not sure how I am supposed to take the rest of the post seriously.
Not trying to be mean, and although I feel your pain, seems like the root cause of your issue started here. Anyone who flies more than a few times knows the lithium batteries, especially those embedded in devices, suitcases ect., and flying can create drama regardless of logic.
Right or wrong easier to just avoid them.
Not trying to be mean, and although I feel your pain, seems like the root cause of your issue started here. Anyone who flies more than a few times knows the lithium batteries, especially those embedded in devices, suitcases ect., and flying can create drama regardless of logic.
Right or wrong easier to just avoid them.
Jul 1, 2019, 11:34 am
#14
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: HSV
Programs: Bellevue Lifetime Premiere Mega Elite Supreme
Posts: 1,509
I’m not an EE or even a particularly smart guy. That said, I did see a phone plugged into a charger, stuffed into a seatback start to smoke and within 60 second the entire plane was filled with a strong odor and it was thick enough to be uncomfortable. Fortunately, we were 30 minutes out and had just begun initial approach. The lead FA had the mitts and a bag that contained the offending device.
The battery in a smartphone is minuscule compared to the one OP is talking about. I marveled at how quickly something so small could wreak such havoc in a relatively large plane (753).
The battery in a smartphone is minuscule compared to the one OP is talking about. I marveled at how quickly something so small could wreak such havoc in a relatively large plane (753).
Jul 1, 2019, 4:10 pm
#15
formerly jackvogt
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: Delta SkyMiles,
Posts: 822
Hmmm....it seems like you are the one who abandoned common sense. They make it removable for a reason. Why would you not remove it? It amazes me when people try to act smart and then blame the airline for following POLICY made to protect you and your fellow passengers.