Delta consider to orders A321XLR?

Old Jun 18, 19, 12:05 pm
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Originally Posted by SJC ORD LDR View Post
If Boeing doesn't get its act together and come up with a 757/767 replacement, Delta will have no choice but to buy this plane. I really hope that Boeing does come up with a widebody replacement for the 767.
The 787 is the replacement for the 767. They do need a good 757 replacement though. Stretching out the 737 again and again...well we know how that went.
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Old Jun 18, 19, 12:14 pm
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Originally Posted by saxman66 View Post
The 787 is the replacement for the 767. They do need a good 757 replacement though. Stretching out the 737 again and again...well we know how that went.
Isn't the 787-8 a bit bigger and has more range than the 767-300? I think Delta is interested in something more like the 767 for Europe than they are looking at a 787 which is great for long/thin routes.

Also, seating in Y is a lot better on a 767 than a 787 IMO.
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Old Jun 18, 19, 12:55 pm
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The 787 Y cabin is fine if airlines just leave them in the intended 2-4-2 config instead of cramming in 3-3-3.

Maybe Boeing could do a 787-7 to more closely match the 763.
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Old Jun 18, 19, 12:56 pm
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And a 787-6 to replace the 757-200, lol
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Old Jun 18, 19, 1:02 pm
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Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68 View Post
The 787 Y cabin is fine if airlines just leave them in the intended 2-4-2 config instead of cramming in 3-3-3.

Maybe Boeing could do a 787-7 to more closely match the 763.
I think you mean the 787-3. This was a real plane that Boeing offered but could never make it work. It was originally going to be more differentiated from the 788 to make it more efficient on shorter sectors, but they ended up keeping the plane basically the same with some minor adjustments. So it weighed too much to have good economics. Boeing canned it after orders started to fall through.
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Old Jun 18, 19, 2:08 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by SJC ORD LDR View Post
There is an A330-800neo, but only 10 orders for it right now according to Wikipedia. There is no A330-700neo though.

I do agree that Delta will never touch the MAX after this fiasco. That one plane single handedly destroyed a lot of Boeing's reputation.
Right! Kuwait Airlines had already orders 10 A330-800neo.
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Old Jun 18, 19, 2:39 pm
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For the most part, outside of maybe Russain and Chinese aircraft and engines, Delta considers everything.

better question, Will Airbus come to Delta with a good enough deal for them to pull the trigger on some XLRs. The 75S fleet is still quite young and could go into the late 2020s fairly easy.
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Old Jun 18, 19, 4:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Dawgfan6291 View Post
For the most part, outside of maybe Russain and Chinese aircraft and engines, Delta considers everything.

better question, Will Airbus come to Delta with a good enough deal for them to pull the trigger on some XLRs. The 75S fleet is still quite young and could go into the late 2020s fairly easy.
Yes, I don't get all this nonsense about the MAX. In 3-4 years, it will all be forgotten. I would prefer that Delta does not order any MAX if only because of the seat width issue, but Delta wouldn't be put off by the MCAS issue. That said, I don't see Boeing needing the airframes given their massive backlog of A321 orders (although with MD-88, MD-90, and A320 retirements on deck, who knows).

As far as the XLR.. the 75S aren't exactly young - and they're gas guzzlers. I could see Delta replacing the 75S with XLR and moving the 75S to a domestic configuration and use them on high, hot, or short runway airports (SNA, JAC, and so on). The XLR can replace the 75S on long-hual routes and do it cheaper and with more comfort. But no airliner today can move that many people on a 2000nm+ flight from a 5700 foot runway other than a 752.
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Old Jun 18, 19, 6:41 pm
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Delta used to brag about being a Boeing team, now I am glad we are less reliant on them.
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Old Jun 18, 19, 7:02 pm
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Originally Posted by ethernal View Post
Yes, I don't get all this nonsense about the MAX. In 3-4 years, it will all be forgotten. I would prefer that Delta does not order any MAX if only because of the seat width issue, but Delta wouldn't be put off by the MCAS issue. That said, I don't see Boeing needing the airframes given their massive backlog of A321 orders (although with MD-88, MD-90, and A320 retirements
Nonsense about the MAX?? Two planes went down and then it comes out that Boeing has been cutting corners, the FAA is asleep at the wheel, and pilots don't know what's on their plane?

Yeah -- don't think this one is going to blow over -- and I think DL pilots may "care about the MCAS issue" that brought down two planes.

Worst of all MAX has some seriously bad brand equity at the moment -- to the point where UA and WN have publicly stated they'll let passengers switch away from 737 MAX flights at no charge.

I doubt DL would touch them if Boeing gave them away for free (I'm frankly shocked IAG bought them, Boeing must have really given them away for pennies) -- the negative brand impact is too high
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Old Jun 18, 19, 7:14 pm
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Originally Posted by Duke787 View Post
Nonsense about the MAX?? Two planes went down and then it comes out that Boeing has been cutting corners, the FAA is asleep at the wheel, and pilots don't know what's on their plane?

Yeah -- don't think this one is going to blow over -- and I think DL pilots may "care about the MCAS issue" that brought down two planes.

Worst of all MAX has some seriously bad brand equity at the moment -- to the point where UA and WN have publicly stated they'll let passengers switch away from 737 MAX flights at no charge.

I doubt DL would touch them if Boeing gave them away for free (I'm frankly shocked IAG bought them, Boeing must have really given them away for pennies) -- the negative brand impact is too high
Boeing and the Feds have needed a wakeup call for years now. If only it could have happened without the loss of hundreds of lives.
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Old Jun 18, 19, 7:57 pm
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Originally Posted by Duke787 View Post
Nonsense about the MAX?? Two planes went down and then it comes out that Boeing has been cutting corners, the FAA is asleep at the wheel, and pilots don't know what's on their plane?

Yeah -- don't think this one is going to blow over -- and I think DL pilots may "care about the MCAS issue" that brought down two planes.

Worst of all MAX has some seriously bad brand equity at the moment -- to the point where UA and WN have publicly stated they'll let passengers switch away from 737 MAX flights at no charge.

I doubt DL would touch them if Boeing gave them away for free (I'm frankly shocked IAG bought them, Boeing must have really given them away for pennies) -- the negative brand impact is too high
Of course. I am not excusing Boeing. They royally screwed up. Over three hundred people died because of it. This is a big deal.

But time is powerful. The MAX will have a long, successful service life. And Boeing and the US aviation regulatory apparatus will be forced into taking this as a wake-up call and continue to improve aviation safety both within the US and globally.

The MD-88 survived the jackscrew issues. The A320 survived a crash during demonstration. The 737-300 survived the rudder issues. And so on.


It is not unlikely that at some point, Delta will acquire some 737 MAX. It may not happen in the next couple of years.
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Old Jun 18, 19, 9:13 pm
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Originally Posted by Duke787 View Post
I doubt DL will touch the 737MAX -- I certainly have no plans to fly on one ever (if I can avoid it) and DL is in a strong position as the only US major without any 737 MAX planes which at this point in time is a strategic advantage both with consumers and operationally
I agree with you. I underestimated the general mass' view on the MAX. I recently tried to schedule a biz trip with several coworkers from Asia (before grounding but after accidents), they saw a domestic segment operated by UA that was on a MAX, and they REFUSED to go on the trip. I thought they were joking but no... emails went all the way to senior management request that they are not forced to fly. These are highly educated deeply technical people with multiple advanced degrees and NO, they would not have any part of it. We even discussed the fact that something so hideous as a poorly design MCAS can leave Boeing engineering, they wonder what other issues yet to be known. Conversations got really personal and almost a soul-searching level, and that they don't want to risk their lives and their families' future should something go wrong. I end up had to redo the trip multiple times so none of the segments were on a 737 or 757, because they were afraid it could get substituted by the MAX should there be equipment issues. I was really surprised by this reaction....

Delta may not be saying this publicly, but it's slowly becoming an Airbus-only fleet, so they might as well as get the XLR and streamline maintenance and create an even more consistent passenger experience. Delta looks like the smart one by not having any MAX, so they should continue this wise move of staying with Airbus A320 family. I think the A321 is a great plane and really enjoy it. I've also flown on A350 multiple times and it's notably better than B787 for passenger comfort prospective, so I am all for moving to a Airbus-only fleet.

Last edited by wlau; Jun 20, 19 at 2:07 am
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Old Jun 18, 19, 9:28 pm
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Originally Posted by wlau View Post
I agree with you. I underestimated the general mass' view on the MAX. I recently tried to schedule a biz trip with several coworkers from Asia (before grounding but after accidents), they saw a domestic segment operated by UA that was on a MAX, and they REFUSED to go on the trip. I thought they were joking but no emails went all the way to senior management requested they are not forced to fly. These are highly educated deeply technical people with multiple advanced degrees and NO, they would not have any part of it. We even discussed the fact that something so hideous as a poorly design MCAS can leave Boeing engineering, they wonder what other issues yet to be known. Conversations got really personal and almost a soul-searching level, and that they don't want to risk their lives and their families' future should something go wrong. I end up have to redo the trip multiple times so none of the segments were on a 737 or 757, because they were afraid it could get substituted by the MAX should there be equipment issues. I was really surprised by this reaction....

Delta may not be saying this publicly, but it's slowly becoming an Airbus-only fleet, so they might as well as get the XLR and streamline maintenance and create an even more consistent passenger experience. Delta looks like the smart one by not having any MAX, so they should continue this wise move of staying with Airbus A320 family. I think the A321 is a great plane and really enjoy it. I've also flown on A350 multiple times and it's notably better than B787 for passenger comfort prospective, so I am all for moving to a Airbus-only fleet.
I'll admit, I have no desire to fly on a MAX ever either. The only other plane that gave me pause was the DC-10. I feel Boeing really should have come up with something new to replace the 50 year old design.
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Old Jun 18, 19, 11:00 pm
  #30  
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Originally Posted by SJC ORD LDR View Post
I'll admit, I have no desire to fly on a MAX ever either. The only other plane that gave me pause was the DC-10. I feel Boeing really should have come up with something new to replace the 50 year old design.
Actually, I flew on WN 737-MAX8 last 2 years ago. It was very quiet. It's very comfortable flight. It was very smooth flight.
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