ryandc99

I recently experienced a pretty bad IRROPs after a 2 hour mechanical delay on ATL-AMS (Operated by Delta).

after arriving to AMS, I was supposed to fly AMS-HEL on the first flight of the day. During the mechanical delay while on the ground in ATL, I tweeted Delta asking to be rebooked on the next AMS-HEL flight which was showing plenty of seats at the time for me and my entire party. Twitter confirmed we were rebooked and I could see the new flight in the Delta App and online both marked as Confirmed.

Upon landing at AMS, and going to the KLM Lounge, they told us we were in fact not on that next direct flight AMS-HEL as it was overbooked. Instead we were on AMS-HAM-HEL, with the first leg KLM and the second leg Finnair. KLM was still selling seats on the last direct flight of the day to HEL as well as finnair selling seats on their direct flights during the day as well, but the KLM agents refused to rebook me on either of those as they were "Too-Full". Calling the diamond line they were unable to do anything as well.

It resulted in one of the worst travel days in recent memory for me, especially on Delta. Anyone ever encounter similar with rude/snarky KLM agents refusing to help in their own lounge?

btonkid12345

Did you go to the gate for the AMS-HEL DL had rebooked you on?

Yes, it's a 50/50 whether the KLM agents in the lounge one gets are super nice, professional, helpful, or snarky and rude.

This is why I stopped using the lounge for IRROPs. Last time I had an IRROP in January, I used the "secret" actual transfer desk behind the transfer station of kiosks near lounge 52.

If you go past the kiosks, there is a desk with a few agents there that faces the window. So you can't see that they're even there until you go around (or, if you don't know about it, then the kiosk has to "pass you on" to them)

The reason this desk is helpful is because an actual KL Ticket Agent is usually assigned there.

KL's airport agents go like this in hierarchy: Agent --> Senior Agent --> Ticket Agent --> Team Leader --> DL OSM Equivalent (I forget exactly what KLM calls this level, sorry)

The ticket agents usually have at least 3 stripes and are pretty senior and knowledgeable with sticky situations like these. Unless you were on an award, I'm not sure how Delta booked you but KL says it wasn't confirmed (was your ticket reissued to the new AMS-HEL flight?)

I'm not sure if EU261 applies for the short haul distance given KL is an EU carrier. Their comment about too full simply meant they made a personal assessment that the cost was too high - as if they personally own KLM - but that's just them being very practical and Dutch.

If Delta didn't reticket onto the new flight, the beef is with DL. If DL did, I would have gone for the gate and asked for the Team Leader at that set of gates. The Team Leaders are like DL Red Coats except they wear the same color uniform, so hard to ID unless you notice their stripes or their tags.

Often1

It was DL's obligation to handle the rebooking as it was the late-delivering carrier. While KL should have done it as a customer service gesture, it had no obligation to do so.

If you indeed were ticketed onto the KL nonstop, EC 261/2004 applies and you are due EUR 600 for being denied boarding and further compensation for the delay into HEL if the time constraints for a Type 3 flight (ATL-HEL) are met. Those are EUR 300 at 3 hours and EUR 600 at 4 hours. Thus, somewhere between EUR 600 and 1,200.

If DL did not reticket, you are SOL on the EC 261/2004 front and should look to DL for some form of customer service gesture.

flyerCO

KLM is DLs handling agent at AMS. KLM did have an obligation, but as the agent for DL.

DL isn't an EU carrier, nor did their delayed flight depart from the EU. Thus I don't see how EC261 applies. While rebooking was done in air, it technically is no different from if it had been done on ground after flight arrived. The delay was still result of DL flight into, not out of EU.

MSPeconomist

CaliguyNYC

MSPeconomist

lindros2

EU261 absolutely applies.
I was on ATL > AMS > ARL (Stockholm-Arlanda) and had a similar situation.
(well we had a small delay due to door lock issue, then - after it wasn't fixed - had to return to ATL for pressurization - same issue - and I missed connection to ARL).
Delay was about 6-7 hours (arrived 5pm instead of 10am).
I got full compensation.

MSPeconomist

ryandc99

Thanks all for the replies. I was on a paid ticket (not award).

I will try the EU compensation route and see where it goes. Also thanks for the details on the different types of agents and that the lounge isn't the best way to go. If I had known that I would have approached it differently!

Too add insult to injury trying to claim ORC the segments all posted as not eligible for mileage credit 😄. Called DL and they are working on it.

btonkid12345

So did DL via Twitter reissue your ticket for the new nonstop AMS-HEL or not?

Often1

Remember the caution. EC 261/2004 only applies if you were ticketed on the new KL flight by DL. If you were not and KL refused to ticket you onto that flight, that may be a customer service issue, but it is not a denial of boarding or delay issue under the Regulation.

UKtravelbear

Surely as the AMS was operated by DL and that is what caused the delay then it is outwith of EU261?

WillBarrett_68

It's weird that so many people seem to prefer AMS over CDG for connections given that this sort of nonsensical baloney never happens at CDG.

flyerCO

I think issue with CDG is constant strikes, and layout vs AMS. FWIW, IME KLM agents are usually more willing to help. AF agents seem to be strictly by the books, even if it means inconveniencing a passenger even more.