jdrtravel

By 15K F upgrade do you mean you paid 15K miles for the upgrade? If that's the case, I agree with you that they should refund it, even due to weather.

acrophobia

flyerCO

If you agree to a voluntary downgrade, which is what OP did, you don't get to claim compensation for an involuntary downgrade. Take a look next time you use rebooking took. It makes it clear you get NO refund, No compensation if you voluntarily take a lower seat. DL would've happily provided him a F seat, on the next flight with a F seat available. OP didn't want to wait. No compensation is due. Do not collect $200, go straight to coach. He may get something as a CS gesture, but the downgrade was voluntary and thus no compensation is due.

cre95

WillBarrett_68

If this were true, then give me an example of an actual involuntary downgrade. Would you only be able to claim this if you were on the last flight of a route that was being discontinued? Otherwise, there's always a later flight.

ijgordon

Wrong

Notwithstanding the "warning" on the rebooking tool.

That would violate Rule 19 of the CoC, plus any basic common sense.

jdrtravel

Where in the OP did you read that OP was offered the choice of a later flight vs. compensation? How do you know that choice was made? Also, your rigid read of whatever rules you seem to be aware of does not match my experience:

A couple of months ago I misconnected on AMS-SEA-SFO (because of DL operational issues) on an D1/F award ticket.

The next SEA-SFO flight available, leaving in 2 hours, only had room in Y, or I could have waited 6 hours and flown in F. Neither of these were good options, and I was presented with these poor choices through no fault of my own.

I had already been traveling for over 10 hours, and wanted to get home, so I accepted Y on the next flight. For my troubles I was offered a mileage credit of 9,000 SM (the fare difference on this short domestic leg) plus a $200 credit. While I "voluntarily" accepted the downgrade, I was involuntarily put in the position of choosing between a downgrade or spending 7+ hours in an airport after I'd gotten of a TATL flight, and DL saw it fit to compensate me for it.

ethernal

Let's separate out a couple of different things:

1) What the Contract of Carriage says
2) What regulatory requirements are
3) What would hold up in a court of law around contractual intent and party expectations
4) What Delta or any other business in the US would do as a customer service gesture

Your rigid reading of the contract of carriage implies that OP is not granted any compensation or that OP would not be legally entitled to said compensation.

Contrary to all the people that believe the Contract of Carriage is the end-all-be-all of everything, the reality is that it isn't. Courts try to understand the intent of a contract in the event of ambiguity.

And let's be clear.. this whole nonsense about voluntary downgrades? Even in the contract ITSELF Delta says the passenger is entitled to a partial refund. It's right here:

"If acceptable to the passenger" = voluntary. "May be entitled to partial refund" = difference in fare. Now, of course, where things get sticky is.. difference in fare when? The day of departure or time of booking? And so on.

I really don't get the attitude of a lot of folks on this forum who bend over backwards to try to say "OP deserves nothing! Suck it up!" when that is not factually accurate.

A lot of times Delta does provide compensation as customer service gestures when they have no contractual, regulatory, or legal requirement. But this is not one of those times. And don't conflate a strict reading of the CoC with what would be a legal requirement or a likely ruling in a court of law (which cares about contract intent and reasonable party expectations when reading an incomplete and ambiguous contract which the CoC is).

Obviously the average passenger isn't going to waste time with a court case, but that doesn't change the fact that the statement of "OP is entitled to nothing" is not correct. It just so happens to be that the transaction cost of collecting on what may be a legal entitlement is higher than the value of that entitlement - and, therefore, they make a choice not to pursue it.

flyerCO

First off, I've never said don't feel OP should get nothin . I do think it was poorly handled. However, OP was offloaded in compliance with the CoC and associated policies agreed to by customer by purchasing a ticket. At T-15 from scheduled departure Delta was in the right to offload. It Doesnt mean it was just or good CS, but they were in the right. Once that happened OP was entitled to be rebooked on next flight with F. If that was the same flight, then that flight. If the next flight isn't till the next day, then next day. Depending on reason for the late inbound, DL would've put him in a hotel. However OP didn't want to wait till next day. Therefore he accepted a seat in highest service available on the flight, main cabin in this case. Thus it was a voluntary downgrade as he could've spent the night and flown, in F next day. If he had been at the gate prior to cutoff and had been offloaded, yes he'd be entitled to compensation as he was downgraded outside of policy/CoC.

Again, I agree what happened sucks. Good CS is that they should issue a CS gesture. However compensation isn't due. What they should do (and should've done to begin with) vs what they're legally required to do, are different things. FWIW, this isn't first time this specific type of issue has been discussed.

jdrtravel

OFFS. I vote you off the island of this thread.

ethernal

Did you ignore what I quoted in the CoC? Even by strict reading of the CoC (weasel words like "may" aside, which won't give Delta an out in a one-sided contract like this) OP is entitled to a partial refund of fare even if they voluntarily take a lower fare class. The $200 additional compensation is a customer service gesture.

Zorak

I suppose in an ideal world the passenger would have the "deaf or hard of hearing" SSR on their record (you can indicate it in the same place to indicate wheelchair/vision impaired/peanut allergy), and the GA would notice, but I'm not sure how they handle it after that (try to text?) I also don't know how this is actually reflected in the record and how easy it would be for the GA to overlook it in a hurry.

(Mentioning this more as a practical/logistical matter and not commentary on the validity of "we called your name" )

s0ssos

What is your definition of "involuntary downgrade?" Like Dr. Dao? Anything else?
When is Delta not "within" their right to offload?

ATOBTTR

That might work at an outstation where there's 1 SkyClub. At ATL where there's 10 SkyClubs, that becomes silly to think a GA would have the time to call 10 SCs to find out if a passenger may or may not be there, especially since many passengers may not opt to go to the SC closest to their departure gate but may go to a nicer lounge (B/E/F) or went to the SC closest to where their inbound flight came in to (I often do this, as if I have a long layover, and knowing there's a good chance of a gate change anyway, I either go to a preferred lounge, either B or F, or go to the closest lounge to where I came in).

s0ssos

The problem is the airline doesn't actually know where you are (not that I'm voting in favour of tracking via the app). Checking in used to mean you were at the airport, at least, but nowadays it doesn't mean anything. Whether you have gone through security (they scan your boarding pass, obviously, but the airline doesn't know you have passed security).
It would be really helpful if the airline knew who was in the airport, just needs a reminder the plane is boarding, or who is hundreds of miles away.