DLASflyer

ethernal

If Boeing is actually serious about NMA then I'm sure Delta will end up on the orderbooks for that plane soon.

I also assume that Delta would consider the 777X, although given Delta's route network it's possible they don't want that kind of capacity and would stick more in the A339 to A350 capacity range (although I feel like it would be a no-brainer to, e.g., East-Coast Hubs to ICN or West-Coast Hubs to AMS/CDG but it may not be worth having another subfleet for high density routes).

FlyBitcoin

Boeing is not making anything that DL needs right now. Just a market cycle.
DL right now needs aircraft to replace 767's and regional jets. Therefore, the 339 and the CS100 get the nod.

audidudi

I wonder if the A330-800neo is being considered? Who knows when the B797 will be available, but maybe DL can wait for it; it's probably 5 years out at least.

ethernal

No one is ordering the A330-800neo because the economics don't make sense except for carriers with some very specific route / network needs. There are about 10 A338 orders to about 300 A339 orders.

My guess is that Delta is going to try to use the A339s to replace a portion of the 767s that have to age out before 2026-2027, and Delta will hope to be a launch customer for the Boeing NMA and replace the remaining 767s directly with the NMA.

The fact that Delta has a gap in its fleet right around 2026-2027 with no orders on the books is probably the strongest indicator that Boeing is serious about the NMA frame with a target launch around that time (if not before, although the window for that is shrinking).

If Boeing does not get authority to offer the 797/NMA from the board this year (or early next), I expect that Delta will have to make a hard choice and do more A339 orders and just deal with the excess capacity issues (probably through some route pruning). Or Delta could surprise us and order 788s, but that seems unlikely as well given the capital costs of those planes. Or maybe even a second-hand purchase (although Delta has not historically been keen on second-hand widebody purchases).

LoganFlyer

Slight correction: Boeing owes DL 1 more 739ER, which will be ship #3930 (N930DZ).

Weekend Away

Aren't the 777X and A350 basically the same aircraft from a capacity standpoint? Delta flies the 777 at 9 abreast in economy instead of 10, and has 3 and 4 class layouts, instead of 2. The A350 has more seats than any 777 currently in the fleet, 306 vs 288(772) and 296(77B)/288(7CB). The A350 has a greater range, but DL isn't flying ultra long haul routes. Why would they consider the 777X?

The Situation

Given the fiasco with the max and whatever "reforms" will be coming to Boeing and the FAA, the design and certification process for any new a/c will not be able to stick to any sort of timeline. Boeing needs a good debut. Airline confidence will be shaken a lot longer than public confidence in Boeing aircraft. The timeline uncertainly and confidence issues will make any new a/c a very difficult sell to any airline, especially for a launch customer, which is why I would expect this leads to higher odds that DL will be the launch customer. The first a/c will be dirt cheap and DL likes cheap.

ethernal

The A359 is comparable to a 772. But the 777-9 is a completely different class of widebody than the 772 (and, therefore, A359). It's OEW is 50 tons more than the A359 its MTOW is about 80 tons more than the A359.

If Delta did acquire the 779, it would almost certainly put it 10-abreast. The 777X has increased the interior cabin width by 4 inches over the 777, allowing slightly more tolerable seats in a 10-abreast configuration (17.7" or so width seats - not luxurious, but also not as torturous as existing 777s).

Delta's A350s will have 297 seats once they put in a section of Comfort+ as they have promised. A Delta-configured 779 would likely have around 380-390 seats - about 30% more capacity than an A350.

I am not saying that Delta will acquire 779s - they did not buy 773s after-all - and the 779s are another 10 feet longer / higher capacity than the 773s. But the A359 and 777X are different planes for sure.

edit: typo

N830MH

No, they didn't orders 773ER aircraft yet. They never had any 777-300ER. I was hoping Delta will eventually to orders 779X in near the future.

Dawgfan6291

OP it depends on how exact you want to be. Delta technically had 738 orders during bankruptcy but they were being sold before delivery. They don't even carry the 32 Boeing customer code.

The 787 "order" is arguably in the same boat. After Delta delayed it the first time they never were assigned delivery slots so its arguable how firm the order was.
Oh boy.

Do people really believe this kind of stuff?

MCAS will be fixed, the MAX will keep flying and will keep bringing in huge orders. Simple fact is, Airbus can't produce enough NEOs to cover the marketplace right now and that's not even considering all the 737NGs and 320CEOs that are starting their replacement cycles. More importantly, there won't be some sweeping changes in aircraft certification or some kind of distrust in Boeing. Even if the FAA makes some kind of changes(they wont) it would be in grandfathering and wouldn't cause any issues for a new aircraft, ie a 797.

Every single OEM has had issues, Boeing, Airbus, GE, Pratt, Rolls, etc. etc. and yet they are still out there today.

Weekend Away

Ah, I didn't realize just how much larger the 777X's are. I thought I had been reading 2 class seating vs 3/4. Looks like the new 777's are a replacement for the 747/A380. Since no US airline flies either of those, would AA/DL/UA even order the new 777? The current order book looks to be from legacy A380 carriers.
https://simpleflying.com/boeing-777x-vs-777-300er/

ethernal

It's a good question.. and I don't know the answer. My starting hypothesis is that since AA and UA both have 773s, they will likely end up buying 779s or 77X - either to augment those fleets or to replace them as they age out. That said, the 773s for both carriers are young (10 years or less). So it may be some time before they look to replace them.

You are 100% right that these birds are primarily for your international single-city mega-hub carriers - BA, ME3, Singapore, and so on. Totally different market context than the US3 carriers. If anything, the US market continues to prioritize both capacity discipline and frequency over raw CASM - so even long term replacement of the 773s by UA/AA are a suspect hypothesis.

That said, hub-to-hub flying will always have a place - and the increased use of TATL and TPAC joint ventures increases the value proposition significantly. As an example, between CDG and AMS, Delta and their JV partners fly something like 7000 seats of capacity daily to/from ATL (although perhaps a bad example - 777X will not likely perform that great on "shorter" routes). But, again, even that is biased towards frequency nowadays to both spread out connections and make layovers shorter.

PotomacApproach

ATLflyer2017

I don't really care where the planes come from (Airbus or Boeing) as long as they are safe and operationally reliable. Would I like to support an American company (Boeing)? Sure I would, but I don't believe in buying things you don't need or that don't work well for specific routes and markets just to support a specific brand. I'm sure Boeing will produce a plane that Delta is interested in in the future and I wouldn't be surprised if AA or UA order more Airbus' in the future (depending on where things go in the next however many years). Delta clearly has a strategy of picking up old planes at discounted rates. I am sure there will be 737s that are brought into the fleet sooner or later.