Atlanta air traffic

Old Jun 18, 19, 3:39 pm
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyBitcoin View Post
And it might not be there in its current form if Birmingham did not "fumble" it away...
https://www.cbs42.com/news/cbs-42-in...lta/1180005047
Not trying to be partisan...just simply stating the facts. Historically, Atlanta established itself as decidedly progressive and pro-business with the slogan "the city too busy to hate".

Fast forward, that has not been the case recently. First with the Delta fuel subsidy issue due to Delta revoking the NRA's discounts and in a different industry with the new anti-abortion law that is causing production companies to reconsider filming in GA.
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Old Jun 18, 19, 6:20 pm
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Especially fun is CDG with Terminal 2E having K, L and M. It could be worse.

Originally Posted by bgriff View Post
It's also still easier than lots of other airports' solutions -- concourses A, B, C are part of Terminal 1 while concourses D, E, F are part of Terminal 2 or whatever. (Or better yet, LGA, where there is a terminal C and D but also C and D concourses in Terminal B...)
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Old Jun 18, 19, 7:53 pm
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Originally Posted by woodje12 View Post
Not trying to be partisan...just simply stating the facts. Historically, Atlanta established itself as decidedly progressive and pro-business with the slogan "the city too busy to hate".

Fast forward, that has not been the case recently. First with the Delta fuel subsidy issue due to Delta revoking the NRA's discounts and in a different industry with the new anti-abortion law that is causing production companies to reconsider filming in GA.
Not sure what that has to do with the ATL airport or DL.
Are you saying that people might choose to fly, say, AA through CLT instead of DL through ATL because of GA politics? That is certainly their right.
Atlanta has become less aligned with Georgia as a whole, but no different from a business standpoint than historically.
Here's what Ed Bastian has to say. Fast forward to 23:50:
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Old Jun 18, 19, 8:30 pm
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Originally Posted by bgriff View Post

It's also still easier than lots of other airports' solutions -- concourses A, B, C are part of Terminal 1 while concourses D, E, F are part of Terminal 2 or whatever. (Or better yet, LGA, where there is a terminal C and D but also C and D concourses in Terminal B...)
Or YYZ which has Terminal 1 and Terminal 3 but no Terminal 2.
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Old Jun 19, 19, 5:53 am
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Originally Posted by woodje12 View Post
Fast forward, that has not been the case recently. First with the Delta fuel subsidy issue due to Delta revoking the NRA's discounts and in a different industry with the new anti-abortion law that is causing production companies to reconsider filming in GA.
Those are state matters, not city matters.
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Old Jun 19, 19, 12:32 pm
  #66  
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Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68 View Post
Those are state matters, not city matters.
+1

Granted, much of the general public isn't going to make nor care about that distinction, and they will associate DL with both ATL, City of Atlanta, and State of Georgia all at once. But I do not envy the people on DL's executive and PR teams who constantly have to juggle the disparities of state vs. local governments all over the country (and even around the world).
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Old Jun 19, 19, 2:14 pm
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Originally Posted by FlyBitcoin View Post
Not sure what that has to do with the ATL airport or DL.
Are you saying that people might choose to fly, say, AA through CLT instead of DL through ATL because of GA politics? That is certainly their right.
I was just building on the story of how Birmingham narrowly missed out on being Delta's HQ and hub. History has shown that the city leaders of Birmingham, setting aside the "content of their character" completely, were abysmal business and civic leaders. By putting their "values" of bigotry and hate ahead of the economic well-being of all, they permanently handicapped their own city's development and long-term prosperity. At the outset of the civil rights movement, Birmingham and Atlanta were roughly comparable economies. As of 2017, Atlanta was just shy of $400B in GDP while Birmingham was around $60B and even on a per capita basis it's $57K versus $49K.

While there could be some individual consumer decisions to not to do business with or in ATL/GA, I think the more likely and frankly painful repercussions are likely to come from corporate relocations and to a lesser extent mega-events (e.g., Super Bowl, NCAA, large conventions) that spurn ATL and GA due to the actions of the local government(s) -- be it state or city as was pointed out in another post.
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Old Jun 19, 19, 3:52 pm
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Originally Posted by woodje12 View Post
I was just building on the story of how Birmingham narrowly missed out on being Delta's HQ and hub. History has shown that the city leaders of Birmingham, setting aside the "content of their character" completely, were abysmal business and civic leaders. By putting their "values" of bigotry and hate ahead of the economic well-being of all, they permanently handicapped their own city's development and long-term prosperity. At the outset of the civil rights movement, Birmingham and Atlanta were roughly comparable economies. As of 2017, Atlanta was just shy of $400B in GDP while Birmingham was around $60B and even on a per capita basis it's $57K versus $49K.

While there could be some individual consumer decisions to not to do business with or in ATL/GA, I think the more likely and frankly painful repercussions are likely to come from corporate relocations and to a lesser extent mega-events (e.g., Super Bowl, NCAA, large conventions) that spurn ATL and GA due to the actions of the local government(s) -- be it state or city as was pointed out in another post.
This is a fascinating discussion.

As a student of Georgia History (the version mandated to be taught in Georgia public schools), I was initially instilled with the belief that Atlanta was destined to grow as it did because of a combination of its location, rail terminus, and weird combination of a unified city nexus surrounded by disorganized/easily swayed suburbs. Birmingham on the other hand was further from the Atlantic ports, had a "lesser" inline rail hub primarily to serve mines and steel industry in the area, and had a city nexus surrounded by suburbs that were actually quite organized and in opposition to growth.

It certainly follows from a more wizened mind that local politics of the time had more to do with the different paths than just geography and proximity to the coast, of course. But I'd also add that in this respect Atlanta had the added benefit of the city also being the seat of the state government. Where local progressives in Birmingham had to battle on values with a state government 2 hours away; the state and local lawmakers in Atlanta were literally walking the same streets every day.
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Old Jun 19, 19, 4:21 pm
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Originally Posted by gooselee View Post
This is a fascinating discussion.

As a student of Georgia History (the version mandated to be taught in Georgia public schools), I was initially instilled with the belief that Atlanta was destined to grow as it did because of a combination of its location, rail terminus, and weird combination of a unified city nexus surrounded by disorganized/easily swayed suburbs. Birmingham on the other hand was further from the Atlantic ports, had a "lesser" inline rail hub primarily to serve mines and steel industry in the area, and had a city nexus surrounded by suburbs that were actually quite organized and in opposition to growth.

It certainly follows from a more wizened mind that local politics of the time had more to do with the different paths than just geography and proximity to the coast, of course. But I'd also add that in this respect Atlanta had the added benefit of the city also being the seat of the state government. Where local progressives in Birmingham had to battle on values with a state government 2 hours away; the state and local lawmakers in Atlanta were literally walking the same streets every day.
Agreed, enjoyed the discussion! Just to be clear, I do think it is a multivariate issue for sure.

A couple quick points to add: not only were the Birmingham suburbs well-organized but they also benefit from the topography. While Atlanta is known as sprawl city for a reason with zero geographic obstacles, the hills/valleys of Birmingham make development at least more expensive, if not physically impossible in places. As for the ports, perhaps, although Savannah has really only come on strong in the last decade or so, as it was previously dominated by Charleston (granted SC is a neighbor at least).

In the end though, I still give the nod to the progressive leadership of ATL (perhaps even going as far back as Henry Grady and his New South vision) who knew, to paraphrase Coolidge, that the business of Atlanta is business.
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