HuffPo: Delta Tried to Trap Its Own Flight Attendants
Jun 3, 2019, 12:24 pm
#46
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Originally Posted by HDQDD;[left
As as far as “replacement crews available”, you clearly don’t know much about crew scheduling. It’s not an infinite resource and during IROPS.
Jun 3, 2019, 12:37 pm
#47
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It’s not an infinite resource because they don’t want it to spend some extra money on it, they rather spend funds on union busting efforts or paying 13 million for the CEO. I propose they dock a million from his pay to retrain the “do not open the doors” guy and to get some more back up crews.
I suppose you think they should also stock a spare airplane of every type at every city they fly to... $13mil for a CEO of a company this size is cheap.
Seriously, what grade are you in?
Jun 3, 2019, 1:24 pm
#48
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5th grade, so I can see clearly and speak the truth and I can say the darndest things, lol.
Jun 3, 2019, 4:00 pm
#49
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I’ve worked for 3 carriers (2 with union FAs) and seen this at each of them from both the agent perspective and in operations (local and system). I’d be willing to bet whomever sent the original message didn’t realize the FAs were also getting it.
Jun 3, 2019, 5:40 pm
#50
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You guys are way too easy on the establishment...First they came for your skypesos, and you said nothing.... Then they came for your upgrades, and you said FCM, no biggie, WFBF, it's just a few $ more...Then they added MQDs, and you said sure, they need the $ more than we do....Then they came for your unions, and you said, "how much was that that Wii game console, again?" 
... Now they are trapping your FAs, and you say, oh, that's just business as usual, plus they love it and volunteer for it...One day, when they come for you PDBs, there will be no one left to help you, you know? (remember, those FAs are still either trapped or playing with their Nintendos, lol).
... Now they are trapping your FAs, and you say, oh, that's just business as usual, plus they love it and volunteer for it...One day, when they come for you PDBs, there will be no one left to help you, you know? (remember, those FAs are still either trapped or playing with their Nintendos, lol).
Jun 3, 2019, 6:46 pm
#51
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We have an airline to run!
You guys are way too easy on the establishment...First they came for your skypesos, and you said nothing.... Then they came for your upgrades, and you said FCM, no biggie, WFBF, it's just a few $ more...Then they added MQDs, and you said sure, they need the $ more than we do....Then they came for your unions, and you said, "how much was that that Wii game console, again?" ... Now they are trapping your FAs, and you say, oh, that's just business as usual, plus they love it and volunteer for it...One day, when they come for you PDBs, there will be no one left to help you, you know? (remember, those FAs are still either trapped or playing with their Nintendos, lol).
... Now they are trapping your FAs, and you say, oh, that's just business as usual, plus they love it and volunteer for it...One day, when they come for you PDBs, there will be no one left to help you, you know? (remember, those FAs are still either trapped or playing with their Nintendos, lol).Great take, I find it odd too that some FT'ers love to say things like "The airline will have hell to pay if I don't get my PDB on my flight!" But if the FA's have no choice but to work a 14 hour day instead of a 12 hour day, Whatever...just make sure those exhausted FA's get me my PDB's! And they better smile while they do it! Oh wait this flight was stuck at the gate for at least 3 hours due to a mechanical, so maybe even the pleb's in coach got PDB's? I work in a union environment, am a union member and a manager and sometimes their are more important things then getting "forced" OT. Like going to sleep, going home and getting out of your work clothes, oh and maybe your "Real Family" will be there once you get off work, lord knows after 10.12, or more hours spending time with your "corporate" family you need a change of pace.
Jun 4, 2019, 8:24 am
#52
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You guys are way too easy on the establishment...First they came for your skypesos, and you said nothing.... Then they came for your upgrades, and you said FCM, no biggie, WFBF, it's just a few $ more...Then they added MQDs, and you said sure, they need the $ more than we do....Then they came for your unions, and you said, "how much was that that Wii game console, again?" ... Now they are trapping your FAs, and you say, oh, that's just business as usual, plus they love it and volunteer for it...One day, when they come for you PDBs, there will be no one left to help you, you know? (remember, those FAs are still either trapped or playing with their Nintendos, lol).
... Now they are trapping your FAs, and you say, oh, that's just business as usual, plus they love it and volunteer for it...One day, when they come for you PDBs, there will be no one left to help you, you know? (remember, those FAs are still either trapped or playing with their Nintendos, lol).PS: You need to re-read the article. No one was "trapped". They had two opportunities to leave, but decided to stay. All an FA (at anytime, not just on the last flight of the day) has to do is call in "fatigued" and they're off the trip. Kudos to them for sticking with it and I hope DL rewards those who go above and beyond.
Jun 4, 2019, 11:56 am
#53
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As an ex Gate AAgent, this is news to me. It's usually Operations (working with Dispatch) who control when the flight will leave. As a Gate Agent, I will go down to close the door as close to the dictated departure time as I can. Before closing, I will poke my head into the cockpit to say hi and confirm maintenance isn't onboard. This is generally my 1st (and only) contact with the Captain.
Jun 4, 2019, 12:19 pm
#54
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Just saying that if the pilot's aren't ready to leave or close the door due a maintenance or weight and balance or last minute fuel issue, I assume you didn't close the door anyway. 99% of the time they want to close the door early too so they can get paid, so it's usually not an issue.
I have seen the crew open the doors on taxiways during really long waits (i.e. TS over the NYC departure fixes) where the cabin was hot (a PACK was deferred). Don't know what company policies are on that.
Jun 4, 2019, 9:54 pm
#55
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You cannot really assess communication among professionals within an organization as an outsider. The lingo may sound harsh and alarming.
This was NOT a hostage situation. It was normal workplace environment give and take.
The word "trap" was used in a negotiation. Plain and simple.
I would imagine that this ground operations person assumes that every crew is going to "walk" at their timeout unless they hear otherwise. He went on that assumption until the FA's corrected him and said they are working. FA did not like that anyone assumed what they were going to do and wanted to get a better deal for the FA crew for operating the flight in addition to the mandated overtime pay. So they made it clear they were "taking one for the team".
Trust me, if you heard the banter that goes on pre-op, intra-op, and post-op for many surgeries, you would not want that published either. Nor would it be great if the doctors lounge and nurses lounge could hear everything said in the other room. BUT, when the team is together, things work pretty well.
This was NOT a hostage situation. It was normal workplace environment give and take.
The word "trap" was used in a negotiation. Plain and simple.
I would imagine that this ground operations person assumes that every crew is going to "walk" at their timeout unless they hear otherwise. He went on that assumption until the FA's corrected him and said they are working. FA did not like that anyone assumed what they were going to do and wanted to get a better deal for the FA crew for operating the flight in addition to the mandated overtime pay. So they made it clear they were "taking one for the team".
Trust me, if you heard the banter that goes on pre-op, intra-op, and post-op for many surgeries, you would not want that published either. Nor would it be great if the doctors lounge and nurses lounge could hear everything said in the other room. BUT, when the team is together, things work pretty well.
Jun 4, 2019, 10:25 pm
#56
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We vote with our wallets, just like employees choose where they work. As my grandfather was fond of saying: "It ain't prison, you can leave whenever you want".
PS: You need to re-read the article. No one was "trapped". They had two opportunities to leave, but decided to stay. All an FA (at anytime, not just on the last flight of the day) has to do is call in "fatigued" and they're off the trip. Kudos to them for sticking with it and I hope DL rewards those who go above and beyond.
PS: You need to re-read the article. No one was "trapped". They had two opportunities to leave, but decided to stay. All an FA (at anytime, not just on the last flight of the day) has to do is call in "fatigued" and they're off the trip. Kudos to them for sticking with it and I hope DL rewards those who go above and beyond.
The policy of leaving it up to the crew whether or not they are willing to work overtime strikes me as ill-advised. Isn't the whole point of the restrictions on length of duty day, which are specific to the airline industry, to ensure that cabin crew and pilots are well-rested enough to safely perform their job duties? There shouldn't be any ambiguity on this - there should be an established maximum duty day that cannot be extended beyond a certain point. Either it is safe for them to work, or it is not. I expect the current policy results in certain crew members assenting to overtime for fear of retaliation and negativity from either their fellow crew members, passengers, or Delta.
Last edited by nk15; Jun 4, 2019 at 11:31 pm
Jun 4, 2019, 10:31 pm
#57
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This is not a cabin crew that happily volunteered for this. They clearly felt that they had to, not happy about it, and felt pressured to do it. As in there will be professional repercussions if they did not volunteer. If they were unionized, they will be less scared for their jobs. And maybe Delta would have more replacement crews available, in ATL from all places, their stupid hub.
- the crew felt pressured to do overtime, so there was no point or reason for the OPS person to get the door closed.
- the crew could refuse the overtime and walk at any time without repercussions, so the OPS person wanted to get the door closed as soon as possible to try and avoid this.
it cannot be both!
In any case, as per the article the door was opened again before the flight left the gate, the flight attendants volunteered to take the flight, they got their deadheading back the next day, and Delta admitted it was't the culture they expected from their teams. Hopefully (but not in the article) the OPS person got a talking to but kept their job, and everyone learned from it that working as a team is the best way to run the business (both employees working together, and delta deadheading the crew back where they went beyond expectations the day before).
Jun 4, 2019, 11:29 pm
#58
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Jun 4, 2019, 11:34 pm
#59
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The controversial conversation happened between a low-level OCC employee and gate agent, not between managers at the level that union busting happens. Are you saying that the gate agent is both (1) participating in the union busting/intimidation while (2) simultaneously being a victim of intimidation?
I don't think that the issue is not about whether or not the FA's were actually trapped or about management actions. The issue is a clear lack of concern for the well being of the employees. The ground employees are clearly under pressure to operate the flight, pitting them against the apparent interests of the FA's (and potentially the safety of the passengers).
I will say that, IMO, this IS another reason why massive workforces really need unions.
Jun 5, 2019, 7:06 am
#60
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The policy of leaving it up to the crew whether or not they are willing to work overtime strikes me as ill-advised. Isn't the whole point of the restrictions on length of duty day, which are specific to the airline industry, to ensure that cabin crew and pilots are well-rested enough to safely perform their job duties? There shouldn't be any ambiguity on this - there should be an established maximum duty day that cannot be extended beyond a certain point.
https://www.govregs.com/regulations/...section121.467