European Novice-Routing questions

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Old May 15, 19, 11:45 am
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European Novice-Routing questions

I am a domestic pro but a European novice. Mostly looking at departing IND but could do CVG.

So, my question is routing to Munich. Looks like it will mostly be 763 in D1 no matter where I connect. Looks like my one stop connections are DTW, ATL and CDG. There may be others. Assuming the price (in this case mileage) is the same (and it isn't for my experimental days), which is the best option?

On the return, I am looking at going out of Nice. One stops are CDG (763), JFK (764),.There may be others. I can two stop it on a 787, A350, 777....and there may be others.

If the price in miles isn't the same, would any particular routing or aircraft justify a premium in your opinion?

Last edited by indufan; May 15, 19 at 12:25 pm
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Old May 15, 19, 12:00 pm
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The 763 isn't awful if you can get row 1 bulkhead, but I would take a two stop connection to avoid if the price is the same if it meant a more comfortable flight. AMS is a better connection point than CDG. The KL 787 was nice and that would be my first choice. The DL A330 is a comfortable option as well. DL 777 may be fairly worn out if they have not been reconfigured yet and I would avoid the 777 on KL/AF. My first A350 D1 flight is coming up soon, so can't speak to that yet.
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Old May 15, 19, 12:09 pm
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Originally Posted by indufan View Post
I am a domestic pro but a European novice.

So, my question is routing to Munich. Looks like it will mostly be 763 in D1 no matter where I connect. Looks like my one stop connections are DTW, ATL and CDG. There may be others. Assuming the price (in this case mileage) is the same (and it isn't for my experimental days), which is the best option?

On the return, I am looking at going out of Nice. One stops are CDG (763), JFK (764),.There may be others. I can two stop it on a 787, A350, 777....and there may be others.

If the price in miles isn't the same, would any particular routing or aircraft justify a premium in your opinion?
I'm partial to wanting to get off the plane when I land after a long-haul flight. So I would choose to connect in ATL/DTW on the way there, and then CDG on the way home. Plus, taking the new CDG-IND route seems kinda cool and novel. Not a usual destination from Paris. If you're worried about AF strikes, which could, hehe, strike at anytime, you might want to avoid AF and CDG and do JFK on the way home.

What time of year are you looking at? Could winter weather be an issue during this trip?
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Old May 15, 19, 12:14 pm
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Originally Posted by Weekend Away View Post
What time of year are you looking at? Could winter weather be an issue during this trip?
I hope not. I don't know for sure. I am about ready to order a 2020 BMW and I will be somewhat at there mercy when it will be ready for pickup in Munich. But I am thinking maybe July or August if I move soon. If I have to wait until winter, then tariff could be an issue again but let's set that discussion aside for another forum.
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Old May 15, 19, 12:16 pm
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Originally Posted by The Situation View Post
The 763 isn't awful if you can get row 1 bulkhead, but I would take a two stop connection to avoid if the price is the same if it meant a more comfortable flight. AMS is a better connection point than CDG. The KL 787 was nice and that would be my first choice. The DL A330 is a comfortable option as well. DL 777 may be fairly worn out if they have not been reconfigured yet and I would avoid the 777 on KL/AF. My first A350 D1 flight is coming up soon, so can't speak to that yet.
Thanks. I have been on the 76W and the H33. Mostly I am OK with either. If it is flat, I can sleep.
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Old May 15, 19, 12:30 pm
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In terms of seating/comfort I prefer in this order

KL or AF 787
DL A330 or AF 777 with BEST SEATING (1-2-1 configuration)
DL A350 or refurb 777
KL 747 (+1 if can get 1A, 4A, or 4E, the only single seats on the plane)
KL 777/A330
DL 767 (+1 if can get bulkhead, which has extra room in the area for your feet)
DL 777 non return, all should be refurb by EOY
AF 777 with 2-2-2 config (non-BEST) or A380
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Old May 15, 19, 12:45 pm
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Are you flying by yourself or with others? Depending on what equip are on what airlines, some of those will be 2-2-2 seating and others will be 1-2-1. Perhaps 1-2-1 is worth some premium for you...for me it really isn't so long as I can get a seat in the middle section (if solo).

Unlike some others, I really do not like connecting at AMS and would choose CDG instead if the price was the same.

All told, it seems like all your options are one or two stops in either direction on DL/AF/KL widebody metal in J. Based on your openness to 2-stops, I'm assuming an extra few hours in either direction schedule-wise isn't too much of an issue. With nothing else known, my personal priority would be as follows:
1. Whatever is cheapest overall (I tend to do a rough miles+tax calculation; will pay extra 5k RDM or so to reduce $75 in taxes for example; also account for positioning flights if needed)
2. Sticking to one-stop only
3. CDG > AMS
4. Equip that is new to me (350, AF 777 w/BEST) or equip that I think is neat (787, 747)
5. If solo, equip with 1-2-1 seating; otherwise don't care

The TATL flights are so short I don't actually mind the angled lie-flats that much, but FWIW this would replace factor #3 for me if I were going TPAC.
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Old May 15, 19, 2:07 pm
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Avoid CDG and JFK if at all possible.
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Old May 15, 19, 3:04 pm
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On second thought, I agree with all the CDG hatred. More people should avoid it at all costs and route through AMS instead.

Allows for fewer people and shorter queues for those of us who prefer CDG.
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Old May 15, 19, 3:07 pm
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Would it make sense to do an open jaw and drop off your new BMW at some other major location in western continental Europe? Mercedes gives you several dozen choices and I would assume that BMW is similar. You can do open jaw award tickets easily, although IIRC the good sale prices in miles are for RTs. [Sorry, I just recalled that you're considering returning from NCE.]

On the outbound, I assume you won't be picking up the car the day you arrive, so it doesn't much matter whether you arrive early or late in the day. For the return, I would try to get a late day departure if you're dropping the car off on the way to the airport or alternatively do an overnight connection at an airport in Europe.

I would expect the NCE-JFK flight to be very expensive in high season as DL can fill it at a premium. Note also that the area around Nice is very crowded and very expensive around August.
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Old May 15, 19, 3:41 pm
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
In terms of seating/comfort I prefer in this order

KL or AF 787
DL A330 or AF 777 with BEST SEATING (1-2-1 configuration)
DL A350 or refurb 777
KL 747 (+1 if can get 1A, 4A, or 4E, the only single seats on the plane)
KL 777/A330
DL 767 (+1 if can get bulkhead, which has extra room in the area for your feet)
DL 777 non return, all should be refurb by EOY
AF 777 with 2-2-2 config (non-BEST) or A380
If you can snag the single seats and you've not flown a 747, the I'd go for it. In fact, I find the KL 74 seats to be pretty comfortable and with really big seat pitch, so if you've never flown upstairs on a 747, then I'd go for it.
And definitely avoid the AF 380.
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Old May 15, 19, 3:47 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Would it make sense to do an open jaw and drop off your new BMW at some other major location in western continental Europe? Mercedes gives you several dozen choices and I would assume that BMW is similar. You can do open jaw award tickets easily, although IIRC the good sale prices in miles are for RTs. [Sorry, I just recalled that you're considering returning from NCE.]

On the outbound, I assume you won't be picking up the car the day you arrive, so it doesn't much matter whether you arrive early or late in the day. For the return, I would try to get a late day departure if you're dropping the car off on the way to the airport or alternatively do an overnight connection at an airport in Europe.

I would expect the NCE-JFK flight to be very expensive in high season as DL can fill it at a premium. Note also that the area around Nice is very crowded and very expensive around August.
Yes, there are many ports I can use. Nice is just the one that I think is most attractive to me. Any other particular places you think that would be good. Italy has a surcharge. The others are included. I can get a list of places. I think France is about as west as it gets. Yes, the plan would be to spend the night before in Munich and then drive to wherever for a Hilton pay for 4 and get 5 night award.
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Old May 15, 19, 3:49 pm
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Originally Posted by gooselee View Post
On second thought, I agree with all the CDG hatred. More people should avoid it at all costs and route through AMS instead.

Allows for fewer people and shorter queues for those of us who prefer CDG.
I am listening. But there isn't a IND-AMS non-stop where there is a IND-CDG. But CDG is one of the main reasons for the post to begin with. Obviously, I have been to JFK, ATL and DTW.
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Old May 15, 19, 4:04 pm
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Originally Posted by indufan View Post
I am listening. But there isn't a IND-AMS non-stop where there is a IND-CDG. But CDG is one of the main reasons for the post to begin with. Obviously, I have been to JFK, ATL and DTW.
There's nothing wrong with CDG and AF. I too prefer CDG to AMS, but mostly because I like French culture more. When I fly to Europe I almost always fly into/out of Paris.
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Old May 15, 19, 4:05 pm
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I would avoid JFK on the return. Immigration there can be a nightmare if you don't have global entry. Depending on your time of arrival and the arrival of flights from various 3rd world countries ahead of you the wait could be several hours.
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