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gate closed more than 15 minutes before scheduled departure

gate closed more than 15 minutes before scheduled departure

Old May 8, 19, 11:15 am
  #76  
 
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Yes. That's exactly why trying to deal with this situation via piece of software code (aka VIPR) is wrong as the code doesn't know if the gates are next to each other/easily accessible/you are Usain Bolt etc.
The even more annoying part - as others have noted - is this 'cobra code' is more geared towards biting the highest medallion customers more then anyone else.

Of course, it reduces the Burden on GAs to deal with these situations so they are happy.
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Old May 8, 19, 11:31 am
  #77  
 
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In order for any such software to work, it must be programmed to VIPR at say MCT -15 minutes or maybe MCT -10 minutes for a potential incoming connecting passenger. Not MCT -1 minute.

Any tighter than MCT-10 and the software must take into account gate proximity. The software is only good if both the MCT miss and the gate arrival miss (under T-15) are BOTH certain based on the data on hand.

Yeah, DOT will not look kindly on a 1 minute MCT miss but present at gate and in line at T-20 and I don't think DL wants that kind of customer service headache.

In the case of the OP, the plane went out with empty seats so that is inexplicable to say the least unless there was a storm approaching that could cause a ground stop 10 minutes later and the GA got permission to close early.
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Old May 8, 19, 11:57 am
  #78  
 
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Originally Posted by glitchy View Post
I think there are some perverse incentives driving this but heck if I can figure out where they are.

Today at AMS (with mildly crappy weather, mildly delayed flights, and thus a lot of tight connections) the jetway was already off of DL257 (AMS-BOS) by T-15 and I believe the plane left with empty seats. Headwinds are light and it's due into Boston an hour early.

Isn't the easiest course of action here to keep taking passengers until T-15 or so? Seems easier than dealing with rebooking a rapidly accumulating mob. Even if I believed in maximally self-serving airline behaviour and maximally lazy gate agents, it seems like more work for everybody. So, why?
The incentive for the (lazy) agent is that they know they have people coming who are likely to misconnect. Instead of being there to have to deal with (usually somewhat irate) customers who need rebooking, they can just exit the jetway at the bottom and walk across the ramp into the terminal. They won't ever have to interface with said customers. When I was a gate supv eons ago (not at DL), I wrote a few people up for exactly this behavior.

We'll probably never know why they closed up so early in the OP's case. Maybe it was the agent's last flight of the day...who knows.

Regarding the AMS anecdote, I don't think that's relative here. They claim to cut off boarding significantly earlier to allow for PPBM (I think they usually announce 30 minutes).
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Old May 8, 19, 12:50 pm
  #79  
 
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Originally Posted by HDQDD View Post
I suppose you think closing a flight earlier than policy to avoid having to talk to misconnects is not lazy? I'd love to hear that shady logic!
there is no evidence that there were any misconnects. The OP has not disputed that he was VIPR'd. The gate agent literally had no way to know about him at all.
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Old May 8, 19, 12:55 pm
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Originally Posted by HDQDD View Post
I suppose you think closing a flight earlier than policy to avoid having to talk to misconnects is not lazy? I'd love to hear that shady logic!
furthermore, this doesn't even make sense. If the secret hidden goal here is to avoid hassles with the customer, it seems like the easiest thing to do is to let them board when they're supposed to. Why go to EXTRA effort to 1) close the flight early and 2) then go sneaking around down on the tarmac when they could have just ... watched the passenger scan their boarding pass. It's completely nonsensical.
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Old May 8, 19, 1:27 pm
  #81  
 
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Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68 View Post
furthermore, this doesn't even make sense. If the secret hidden goal here is to avoid hassles with the customer, it seems like the easiest thing to do is to let them board when they're supposed to. Why go to EXTRA effort to 1) close the flight early and 2) then go sneaking around down on the tarmac when they could have just ... watched the passenger scan their boarding pass. It's completely nonsensical.
I agree it is not laziness. But agents are strongly incented to make sure that planes get out on time. Gate agents who continuously have planes depart late - even just a minute late - without a justifiable reason will not be gate agents at Delta for long.

Gate agents are responding to the incentives Delta gives them. And Delta has made it clear: do whatever you need to do to get a plane out on time.

That said, keep in mind that it is entirely possible that the computer in these cases told the gate agent that everyone scheduled to fly had boarded - so why not close? In which case - the issue is VIPR and Delta's aggressive rebooking - not the gate agent.
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Old May 8, 19, 2:48 pm
  #82  
 
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Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68 View Post
furthermore, this doesn't even make sense. If the secret hidden goal here is to avoid hassles with the customer, it seems like the easiest thing to do is to let them board when they're supposed to. Why go to EXTRA effort to 1) close the flight early and 2) then go sneaking around down on the tarmac when they could have just ... watched the passenger scan their boarding pass. It's completely nonsensical.
Now you're adding the assumpton all connections would have made it (without causing a delay). It doesn't appear this was the case from the OP's report (and how would they know anyway).

Rebooking a line of people that just missed their connection is a hell of a lot more work than simply going to the breakroom and letting someone else deal with it. If you can't understand this simple concept, then, as I used to tell agents when dealing with irrational customers: "I can no longer help you".
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Old May 8, 19, 2:51 pm
  #83  
 
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Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68 View Post
there is no evidence that there were any misconnects.
Ummm yeah...no. READ what the OP stated. The OP was a misconnect, so obviously there was at least one.

In 12 years of flying DL 150 times a year, Ive never once had VIPR remove my original segment (before the connecting flight was closed out in DLmatic which is after it's in the air). I have had it add additional segments, but never had it remove an active one where I had a chance to connect. I've made 10 minute connections (due IROPS) more than a few times. This is not to say it can't happen, I've just never experienced it, but then again, I monitor my connections like a hawk.

It sound like the OP had ample time, but they were unchecked in for some unknown reason. DL can see exactly who or what did that, but it's not likely they'd share that with pax anyway.
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Last edited by HDQDD; May 8, 19 at 2:58 pm
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Old May 8, 19, 2:55 pm
  #84  
 
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Originally Posted by HDQDD View Post
Ummm yeah...no. READ what the OP stated. The OP was a misconnect, so obviously there was at least one.
I think his point was that the GA will see no evidence of a misconnect if VIPR kicks in.
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Old May 8, 19, 2:57 pm
  #85  
 
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Originally Posted by WidgetKid View Post
I think his point was that the GA will see no evidence of a misconnect if VIPR kicks in.
OP was not able to make his/her booked connection. By definition that's a missed connection... Who or what offloaded the OP is another issue.
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Old May 8, 19, 3:00 pm
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Originally Posted by HDQDD View Post
OP was not able to make his/her booked connection. By definition that's a missed connection... Who or what offloaded the OP is another issue.
I'm not arguing the definition of a missed connection ... nobody here is. All we're saying is if the OP got rebooked (by whomever or whatever), the original GA would have no idea they were even there in the first place.
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Old May 8, 19, 3:22 pm
  #87  
 
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Originally Posted by WidgetKid View Post
I'm not arguing the definition of a missed connection ... nobody here is. All we're saying is if the OP got rebooked (by whomever or whatever), the original GA would have no idea they were even there in the first place.
Being rebooked wouldn't necessarily affect ACI (Automated Check in). They would still need to be checked out of their original flight. Usually that is done by a human. I'm not sure that's part of the VIPR system. I feel like if it were this would happen all the time.

I've had dozens of occasions where the system (VIPR?) has "protected" me on a later flight, but it's never dumped my original flight unless the agent unchecked me in (i.e. they closed the flight I was supposed to be on). I never accept the reroutes on the app for this reason. I'm assuming it would uncheck me in and check me in to later flight (but that would be a human initiated action).
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Old May 8, 19, 3:53 pm
  #88  
 
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Originally Posted by HDQDD View Post

In 12 years of flying DL 150 times a year, Ive never once had VIPR remove my original segment (before the connecting flight was closed out in DLmatic which is after it's in the air). I have had it add additional segments, but never had it remove an active one where I had a chance to connect. I've made 10 minute connections (due IROPS) more than a few times. This is not to say it can't happen, I've just never experienced it, but then again, I monitor my connections like a hawk.
This +1. Every time I have had this happen the original flight remained until after the flight had departed. The OPís situation was a weird GA induced issue, and if I had to guess where it happened it would have been DTW or ATL
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Old May 8, 19, 5:04 pm
  #89  
 
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I had a similar experience in SLC. I got to the gate and then the agent walked back up the jet bridge. I took a picture of the clock. It was exactly 15 minutes prior to boarding. Agent was not interested in helping at all. I went to the SC and got it sorted out. Was on the next flight 4-5 hours later and a $150 voucher.
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Old May 8, 19, 5:07 pm
  #90  
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Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68 View Post
which is perfectly reasonable if everyone was onboard. You still haven't given all the details, was your inbound delayed? Were you proactively rebooked by VIPR?

It's a near certainty that the GA didn't have any idea you were originally booked on that flight. Making this about the GA and closing the flight out early is almost certainly tilting at windmills.
Details in my original post.
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