Will I have problems flying in the future?
Apr 26, 2019, 11:59 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 979
Will I have problems flying in the future?
So I just had a nightmarish experience with KLM, and I was fed with a lot of misinformation about KLM’s 24-hour policy. Delta was involved in this by accident (since they take care of reservations/customer service on behalf of KLM in the US).
Short version: I wanted to change the destination city on my trip. I believed and I was led to believe that I was within 24-hour cancellation policy. Nobody was able to provide me with consistent information whether I qualified for a full refund and whether I was within a 24 hour cancellation policy.
Here’s the situation:
1. KLM is not very clear about their 24 hour cancellation policy. It specifies that you can cancel within 24 hours after booking, but it doesn’t specify when the clock starts ticking. I was under assumption that as a joint venture partner with Delta, they had the same policy.
2. I call KLM US to confirm. The first agent tells me that my ticket was not fully refundable. The second agent, after consulting with the supervisor, tells me that it was going to be fully refunded if it’s made until midnight the day after I make a booking.
3. I call Delta to ask about that and they said KLM had the same policy as them.
4. I placed a refund request/cancellation online.
5. I reached out to Facebook KLM, and they told me I was not going to get a refund.
6. I call KLM again, and ask whether I would get a refund for the 24 hour cancellation policy. The agent says no, so I ask her to undo my request. She says that there’s no way to do it, so I ask her to make a note that if it’s not going to be refunded, I don’t want to have this trip cancelled.
7. In the morning, I receive an email that they were not going to process my refund request because I notified them that I would be using the ticket and that I cancelled the refund request (which was not true!)
8. I call KLM AGAIN, spoke to the supervisor. He made an exception and transferred my KLM ticket as a eCredit for delta.
9. I asked him to place a reservation for me, using the credit. He did this but he started to amend the existing booking. He transféred KLM ticket 074 to be delta’s Ticket 006, and told me that I would not be able to make any more changes. I said fine.
10. However, to my horror, despite confirming the flight dates several times, he put for the wrong date for an onward flight. I did not noticethhis until he disconnected...
11. I call delta (since this was delta’s ticket now)
12. I explained the situation (short version), and they "offered" to revert to what it was before. They also said that the previous agent was not supposed to make that change. They also said that under no circumstance would I be able to make any further changes.
13. In the end, they reverted back to the original itinerary, with the exception that now it’s a Delta ticket (as opposed to KLM), and some flights are marketed DL, as opposed to KL.
14. Further, when I look on the KLM website, it shows two onward journeys, one on a correct date, the other one on an incorrect date.
Will I have any trouble? Will delta or KLM ban me from flying with them? How do I resolve the two onward journeys?
I know they wrote something under my PNR, lol
Short version: I wanted to change the destination city on my trip. I believed and I was led to believe that I was within 24-hour cancellation policy. Nobody was able to provide me with consistent information whether I qualified for a full refund and whether I was within a 24 hour cancellation policy.
Here’s the situation:
1. KLM is not very clear about their 24 hour cancellation policy. It specifies that you can cancel within 24 hours after booking, but it doesn’t specify when the clock starts ticking. I was under assumption that as a joint venture partner with Delta, they had the same policy.
2. I call KLM US to confirm. The first agent tells me that my ticket was not fully refundable. The second agent, after consulting with the supervisor, tells me that it was going to be fully refunded if it’s made until midnight the day after I make a booking.
3. I call Delta to ask about that and they said KLM had the same policy as them.
4. I placed a refund request/cancellation online.
5. I reached out to Facebook KLM, and they told me I was not going to get a refund.
6. I call KLM again, and ask whether I would get a refund for the 24 hour cancellation policy. The agent says no, so I ask her to undo my request. She says that there’s no way to do it, so I ask her to make a note that if it’s not going to be refunded, I don’t want to have this trip cancelled.
7. In the morning, I receive an email that they were not going to process my refund request because I notified them that I would be using the ticket and that I cancelled the refund request (which was not true!)
8. I call KLM AGAIN, spoke to the supervisor. He made an exception and transferred my KLM ticket as a eCredit for delta.
9. I asked him to place a reservation for me, using the credit. He did this but he started to amend the existing booking. He transféred KLM ticket 074 to be delta’s Ticket 006, and told me that I would not be able to make any more changes. I said fine.
10. However, to my horror, despite confirming the flight dates several times, he put for the wrong date for an onward flight. I did not noticethhis until he disconnected...
11. I call delta (since this was delta’s ticket now)
12. I explained the situation (short version), and they "offered" to revert to what it was before. They also said that the previous agent was not supposed to make that change. They also said that under no circumstance would I be able to make any further changes.
13. In the end, they reverted back to the original itinerary, with the exception that now it’s a Delta ticket (as opposed to KLM), and some flights are marketed DL, as opposed to KL.
14. Further, when I look on the KLM website, it shows two onward journeys, one on a correct date, the other one on an incorrect date.
Will I have any trouble? Will delta or KLM ban me from flying with them? How do I resolve the two onward journeys?
I know they wrote something under my PNR, lol
Apr 26, 2019, 12:03 pm
#3
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,414
I would not be worried about being banned. This seems like a fairly run of the mill glitch related to code-share/partner airline travel.
My suggestion would be to first wait a few days and see if that other reservation sticks, it might drop. Then, call Delta to confirm your 006 ticket is all good.
My suggestion would be to first wait a few days and see if that other reservation sticks, it might drop. Then, call Delta to confirm your 006 ticket is all good.
Apr 26, 2019, 5:46 pm
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 979
Thank you.
Since it appears on the KLM website that I have 2 onward journeys on the same ticket, will not appearing for the second onward journey be considered "no-show" which would result in cancellation?
Interestingly, Delta website only shows one onward, one return journey.
Since it appears on the KLM website that I have 2 onward journeys on the same ticket, will not appearing for the second onward journey be considered "no-show" which would result in cancellation?
Interestingly, Delta website only shows one onward, one return journey.
Apr 26, 2019, 6:08 pm
#5
Join Date: Feb 2016
Programs: DL DM, SPG Plat 100/LT Gold, Marriott Plat, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,988
Thank you.
Since it appears on the KLM website that I have 2 onward journeys on the same ticket, will not appearing for the second onward journey be considered "no-show" which would result in cancellation?
Interestingly, Delta website only shows one onward, one return journey.
Since it appears on the KLM website that I have 2 onward journeys on the same ticket, will not appearing for the second onward journey be considered "no-show" which would result in cancellation?
Interestingly, Delta website only shows one onward, one return journey.
If it's an 006 ticket, go by what the Delta website says.
By the way, two other points:
1.) KL website is quite clear that it's 24 hours from when you make the booking. Not midnight the next day.
2.) Was this a basic economy or economy light ticket? I presume if it was, that is why they made the comments about no further changes, and if they left PNR notes it probably was about no further changes allowed on this reservation specifically
Apr 26, 2019, 7:50 pm
#6
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Earth (non-US)
Programs: NW Gold->CO->UA->DL PM
Posts: 1,338
KL sucks (for CS). Had the same circumstance (no, KL is not clear). KL CS would not budge. Filed a complaint with DL (which handles DL complaints), DL refunded. Again, KL sucks (for CS).
No one will ban you (for this).
No one will ban you (for this).
Apr 26, 2019, 10:55 pm
#7
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: UA
Posts: 444
Is KLM 24 hour cancellation until midnight next day?
Did you not see the answers to your question in time to cancel?
Did you not see the answers to your question in time to cancel?
Apr 27, 2019, 1:29 pm
#9
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: San Francisco
Programs: DL
Posts: 466
Apr 27, 2019, 1:41 pm
#10
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,097
Just for future reference, don't ever make this assumption. Joint ventures are about revenue sharing on the backend. They don't have anything to do with customer-facing policies. Some policies might be aligned as part of a joint venture, but there's nothing inherent about them that requires that to be the case.
Apr 27, 2019, 1:53 pm
#11
Join Date: May 2012
Programs: American Express Membership Rewards, Marriott Rewards Platinum
Posts: 107
KLs booking platform is far inferior to DLs in my experience. On multiple occasions it has ruined itineraries by auto-rebooking after even minor schedule changes, and many DL agents have difficulty managing reservations ticketed 074.
I typically book my KL/AF itineraries with DL over the phone, for which there is no surcharge. The segments can still be KL/AF marketed, but are on 006 stock and managed by Delta reservations. I have even been able to ticket wholly european itineraries this way. As long as the ticket is issued on 006 stock, all DL's ticketing policies apply, including free cancellation by midnight the following evening. Mileage earning is per the KL/AF table.
I typically book my KL/AF itineraries with DL over the phone, for which there is no surcharge. The segments can still be KL/AF marketed, but are on 006 stock and managed by Delta reservations. I have even been able to ticket wholly european itineraries this way. As long as the ticket is issued on 006 stock, all DL's ticketing policies apply, including free cancellation by midnight the following evening. Mileage earning is per the KL/AF table.
Last edited by emoose1; Apr 27, 2019 at 2:04 pm
Apr 27, 2019, 7:06 pm
#12
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Somewhere I've Driven To
Programs: HiltonHonors, IHG Hotels, DL Skymiles
Posts: 2,070
Just for future reference, don't ever make this assumption. Joint ventures are about revenue sharing on the backend. They don't have anything to do with customer-facing policies. Some policies might be aligned as part of a joint venture, but there's nothing inherent about them that requires that to be the case.
I truly like your very understandable explanation........Sad though that 99% of passengers do not realize this and rightly so (not their fault). Long gone are the days when someone at an airline (call center or counter) was well-trained to either explain things clearly and actually be able to fix it without the ever-present inability to think out of the box, make an exception, save the passenger from an unnecessary fees or worse, (the passenger) be left holding the bag, stranded and at a complete loss of what to do.
Been in this industry well over 30+ years. It was so easy to actually HELP people when things went wrong, bring relief to them, make a way out, offer options that were palatable. Now agents shake in their boots anticipating some heavy-handed supervisor calling them on the carpet for the smallest of exceptions, changing a reservation, waiving a fee, etc. Now they are nothing more than button-pushers on the kiosks. Better search out very senior agents if you want someone who will know how to change a ticket, over-ride something and take the problem a bit further than the word "no" or "you need to pay us this (exorbitant) fee".
Last edited by FlyingNone; Apr 27, 2019 at 7:20 pm
Apr 27, 2019, 11:40 pm
#13
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,414
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I truly like your very understandable explanation........Sad though that 99% of passengers do not realize this and rightly so (not their fault). Long gone are the days when someone at an airline (call center or counter) was well-trained to either explain things clearly and actually be able to fix it without the ever-present inability to think out of the box, make an exception, save the passenger from an unnecessary fees or worse, (the passenger) be left holding the bag, stranded and at a complete loss of what to do.
Been in this industry well over 30+ years. It was so easy to actually HELP people when things went wrong, bring relief to them, make a way out, offer options that were palatable. Now agents shake in their boots anticipating some heavy-handed supervisor calling them on the carpet for the smallest of exceptions, changing a reservation, waiving a fee, etc. Now they are nothing more than button-pushers on the kiosks. Better search out very senior agents if you want someone who will know how to change a ticket, over-ride something and take the problem a bit further than the word "no" or "you need to pay us this (exorbitant) fee".
I truly like your very understandable explanation........Sad though that 99% of passengers do not realize this and rightly so (not their fault). Long gone are the days when someone at an airline (call center or counter) was well-trained to either explain things clearly and actually be able to fix it without the ever-present inability to think out of the box, make an exception, save the passenger from an unnecessary fees or worse, (the passenger) be left holding the bag, stranded and at a complete loss of what to do.
Been in this industry well over 30+ years. It was so easy to actually HELP people when things went wrong, bring relief to them, make a way out, offer options that were palatable. Now agents shake in their boots anticipating some heavy-handed supervisor calling them on the carpet for the smallest of exceptions, changing a reservation, waiving a fee, etc. Now they are nothing more than button-pushers on the kiosks. Better search out very senior agents if you want someone who will know how to change a ticket, over-ride something and take the problem a bit further than the word "no" or "you need to pay us this (exorbitant) fee".
In general, this does not describe most of my experiences with Delta agents. While I've certainly run into new/poorly trained reps (especially when calling late night), most of the time I've had excellent customer service from Delta.
Apr 28, 2019, 12:58 am
#14
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LAX
Programs: Fallen DL DM (PM) 2MM
Posts: 4,783
This is out of my area of expertise, but aren't the cancelation rules different if purchasing an EU-US-EU ticket as opposed to a US-EU-US ticket? I seem to remember this happening to somebody else a while back...
Apr 28, 2019, 9:27 am
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,042
DL AFAIK went to one set rule for all DL issued tickets awhile back. I think the only thing origin matters for anymore is if can prpcess refund online.