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Originally Posted by seatacpilot
(Post 30954717)
So most airlines work on "flow back" and while she may have sat in a passenger seat that's not how she's listed on the manifest. She would be listed as a non-operating crew member. Which is a no-go for consuming drinks.
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Well ... as an AA GA from long ago, I can say what their rules were back then ...
There was no such thing as "list for the jumpseat". FAs and Pilots, when flying non-rev (IE: personal travel vs "deadhead" which is company travel) are allowed to ride in (their respective type of) jumpseat ONLY if all cabin seats are full. They "list" for the fact that they desire non-rev/standby travel on the flight, but they do NOT "list" specifically for a jumpseat. If memory serves me right, if assigned a jumseat then non-rev service charges were waived ... thus they could not request jumpseat to avoid charges, they would be assigned jumpseat if it was the only option. They do not need to be in uniform to ride jumpseat. Vacationing Pilots & FAs are (practically) never in uniform. Commuters (again: different from deadheaders) very often are. I have had crew members graciously, when they were next on the standby list, offer to ride jumpseat to allow another (lower on the list) non-crew employee to have a cabin seat. If you're in uniform, you may not drink alcohol no matter where you are seated. To passengers, you look like an employee, possibly headed towards duty. If you're assigned a jumpseat, you may not drink alcohol no matter what you're wearing. You're sitting in an official crewed position; it makes no difference how you "appear" to passengers, you may not drink. If you're seated in the cabin and are not in uniform, then not only do you appear to be just another passenger, you actually are one. Enjoy your flight, keeping in mind that if your selected beverage/meal/etc is running short, you'll be the 1st to be asked to switch. As a Gate AAgent on 2nd shift, at 11pm after 8 hours on duty, we were all ready for a drink at our favorite watering hole (and trust me ... said spot was definitely off airport property) :p Very few of us carried a change of clothes. But we had to remove anything with the name/logo. For us guys, obviously the badge, name tag and ties were off ... but also the belt because the buckle was AA's stylized Eagle. ALL types of logo had to be off. As for the ID badge still being worn .... I think 9-11 changed the philosophy on this. My post 9-11 days at AA were all behind the scene HDQ type jobs, so this is just my theory. In my days at the airport (pre 9-11) my ID was just a card I carried in my wallet. It was my uniform and door keys that gave me access to everyplace I needed to be. 9-11 changed all that. Uniforms no longer proved anything. A key that could open any AA door (at my access level) system wide was worthless. The new TSA decided employees had to go thru screening. ID's were needed so much/often that they came out of the wallet and onto a lanyard. I think that out of habit, employees today simply keep that lanyard handy at all times they're doing anything airport/airline related. |
Deadheading is also having them to return to base even if getting off work. My daughter is an FA and sometimes they can get crew scheduling to change their Deadhead location if they are going "off work" as soon as they land.
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme
(Post 30953507)
Well, another employee reached out to me via PM - and cited the ops manual! It seems pilots and FAs have different rules in this situation:
"F/As NOT riding in the jumpseat are treated differently than a pilot NOT riding in the jumpseat, provided they are still not wearing a uniform and don't return to the jumpseat. They would be elegible to come alcohol." Absent being a deadhead leg, of course. FA in the jump seat = no alcohol FA not in the jump seat (nor returning to jump seat) and not in uniform = OK to consume. Just listing for the jump seat isn't, itself, disqualifying. So, going back to the original post: Not in uniform and Not in jump seat = no violation. Additionally - to answer the question of why the FA was wearing their ID. When jumpseating, at DL, Company ID has to be displayed when not in uniform. Once offered a passenger seat it can be put it away. |
Originally Posted by Widgets
(Post 30954743)
3Cforme’s comment above says that isn’t the case for Delta FAs flying on Delta metal. In any case, the GA could’ve easily changed that FA’s listing from JSA to NRSA and assigning the occupied seat before closing out the flight. |
Originally Posted by gitismatt
(Post 30950385)
I think the issue is less that it was posted and more that it was presented as "just an innocent question" yet there were plenty of details that could actually lead to DL determining the employee being discussed. when you are truly asking a question for curiosity's sake, there is a way to phrase it. When you are being a busy-body and trying to play gotcha, there's a way to phrase that as well.
I am really not being sarcastic, I legitimately would be interested to further anonymize in the future. |
Originally Posted by vincentharris
(Post 30957665)
Fair enough, going forward what is the info i gave that could lead to them (DL) figuring out who it was? Was it the "this morning" vs lets say "a recent flight"?
I am really not being sarcastic, I legitimately would be interested to further anonymize in the future. five seats still empty in uniform pilot out of uniform FA caribbean location date of "this morning" to narrow it down to a specific day post history to narrow down your home airport and/or frequent DL airports |
Originally Posted by 3Cforme
(Post 30945915)
I think that's the key - deadhead vs. non-rev.
I believe (without great certainty) that DL policy prohibits alcohol for deadheading pilots and FAs. I also believe that there is no FAR (Federal Aviation regulation) around this. One certainly can non-rev out of uniform - although Delta does have a non-rev dress code. Presence of a company ID isn't indicative: one would have needed ID to non-rev. |
I’m a DL FA. If we book the FA JS and the flight has open seats, we can occupy the open seat. As long as we are not in uniform and not returning to the JS, we can consume alcohol provided it is not within 8 hours of going on duty. It also irritates me when crew out of uniform leave their ID on. The only reason a crew member should have their ID visible on the plane when not in uniform is if we are occupying the additional JS. This is is a non-issue. |
Originally Posted by gitismatt
(Post 30958964)
entire upgrade list cleared
five seats still empty in uniform pilot out of uniform FA caribbean location date of "this morning" to narrow it down to a specific day post history to narrow down your home airport and/or frequent DL airports |
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