ct2573

Hey folks,

While boarding a flight today on DL, a person mentioned to me that he got upgraded to first class, but was then downgraded because someone had bought the seat. I've noticed DM upgrades on the longer flights no longer clear at window, even when 40% of the cabin is available, and DL is very bullish on trying to sell the seats, but is this yet another expansion of DL's quest for revenue? If I get a medallion upgrade, should I now regard this as tentative, pending anyone else willing to purchase my seat? Has anyone ever heard of this before?

Thanks and happy flying!

lonelygod

same experience last year. got SJC-JFK redeye upgrade at the PM window then lost the upgrade when I tried to change the seat 2 days before the flight, was told the seat was sold to someone else. Eventually, successfully changed to SJC-LAX-JFK in D1, but took me some time talking with the supervisor.

mnbp

Until T-30, seats are available for sale, and sales trump comp upgrades. Exact same thing happened to me two weeks ago (upgraded "early" at about T-45, lost upgrade at T-35).

iflyalexair

An upgrade takes away from the inventory of the F cabin, so assuming this is true, it must be a particularly weird situation whereby a paid F customer somehow oversold the F cabin.

manacit

Isn't it more or less RM's job to manage this? I'd expect that DL wouldn't upgrade a passenger unless they were pretty confident that they couldn't get any more revenue for the seat. When I get upgraded, I assume that I'm going to fly in that F seat barring any changes or problems with the flight.

Now, in something like IRROPS I'd not be surprised that DL would bump an upgraded pax over someone who paid for F and needed to be moved. That only seems fair, all things considered.

ATLawyer

I'm pretty sure the only way they are bumping an upgraded pax is an IT error, plane change, or some other automated process gone wrong.

I've never heard of it being done intentionally. And I've tried... last month had ATL-SAN rt in paid F. I SDC'd the first leg to an earlier flight, and the agent who did it messed up and reissued my ticket as a one way. I didn't realize until I went to check in for my return and had no flight. Called up and my original flight was "fully booked" in F. I asked them to downgrade someone back to Y, since I was in paid F and it was 100% their error. Was steadfastly refused by agent, supervisor, reissue desk, and redcoat at airport. (I ended up with a connection getting in 5 hours later and $1200 in vouchers for the trouble).

ethernal

Yes. You can even see this in effect. For a flight you're on, check right before and after they clear F upgrades at the gate (assuming there is gate F availability). You'll be able to buy an F ticket up until the F upgrades clear but not after.

A lot of times on overbooked flights that have a lot of people waiting seat assignment but several open F seats, they'll clear F upgrades pretty early (T-60) to clear standbys into Y seats but then leave at least one F seat open until T-40 or so (which is when I think they are supposed to clear them according to policy) - that way if someone tries to book between T-60 and T-40 they can still buy that one seat.

Sound like IRROPS or a screwup of some sort.

That said, I'd be more spurious of upgrades that clear at the window. I think those have a higher likelihood of getting yanked away (especially in the event of IRROPS).

Quite frankly I'm of the opinion that all upgrades should just clear at the gate these days. Partly out of selfishness (since I tend to buy my tickets within the window period) - but also to avoid nonsense like this.

mnredfox

Widgets

ct2573

Thank you all. Great insights! Sounds like a fluke, which is good to know. What's a FAM?

Shadowfactor

Widgets

puck021

PupManS

This is a problem I've had a couple times. In many cases, the GA is running upgrade process in the wrong order between GUC/RUC and complimentary upgrades. I have had on 3 occasions (all out of SLC ironically enough) put in a RUC after check in. At some point, the RUC gets pulled, I get upgraded, get a seat, but then the ticket doesn't reissue. Then the complimentary process runs and somehow trumps the RUCs.

So in 2 of these cases I have been very firm that I was upgraded and had some sort of F seat assignment and I paid in instruments (RUC). Net, a redcoat shows up and removes someone from F and sends them to the back of the plane.

Combination of overly complex business rules and technology, and poor training practices.

HDQDD

I highly doubt DL (or any other US airline for that matter) gives out confirmed upgrades and then re-sells the seat in F. It's simply not worth the negative publicity. Most likely either the OP misheard or the hearsay from the other pax was wrong. Downgrades happen, but they're almost always a result of an equipment swap. The agent might not even know about it if the eq swap is done hours before the flight.

From a former agent, I can tell you they book in advance. They have their own peeps for that, and those peeps have a direct line into airline system ops centers to handle this stuff outside of the purview of the gate. How far in advance I don't know, but I had numerous on flights I worked post-9/11 and all of them already had a confirmed booking. I don't know that they're even required to ID themselves to anyone (gate, crew, etc.) anymore. I hate to be all captain obvious, but it wouldn't make much sense for an undercover Air Marshall to go up to the agent, identify themselves *in public* and say you have to book/upgrade me. And if they did, odds are the agent wouldn't know how to book them anyway.