Seeking Second Opinion: Delta Out of Toronto (Canada)
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: YVR & YYZ
Programs: Aeroplan, Delta Skymiles, SPG
Posts: 382
Seeking Second Opinion: Delta Out of Toronto (Canada)
Hi FT'ers,
I know the answer is obvious - Go back to Air Canada/United (Star Alliance) but I am hoping to get a second (and seasoned) opinion from other FT'ers who live in Toronto (or Canada for that matter.)
So I've been stationed out of Toronto over the past few years, and it looks like I will be sticking around for a while. Star Alliance was always my choice of airlines, but business trips landed me on a Skyteam flight, so I stuck with Delta for the past while. While doing some comparison shopping between Delta (SkyTeam) and Air Canada/United (or Star Alliance) economically, apples to apples, Star alliance is often cheaper, and also resulted in shorter flight times, and much fewer connections. More so, they happen to fly to places I want to (and need to) go to more often than Delta or SkyTeam airlines do.
It's too early for me to say good bye to Delta as I do like the overall service (they've treated me very well) but financially, I'm not sure if they are sustainable. There have been instances where I've found flights with Delta so rock bottom, you there was no way to beat them, but I'm unsure if this was a one-off or normal. Hoping some seasoned Delta/SkyTeam flyers out of Toronto/YYZ could chime in. Thanks in advance!
Regards,
bcrdukes
I know the answer is obvious - Go back to Air Canada/United (Star Alliance) but I am hoping to get a second (and seasoned) opinion from other FT'ers who live in Toronto (or Canada for that matter.)
So I've been stationed out of Toronto over the past few years, and it looks like I will be sticking around for a while. Star Alliance was always my choice of airlines, but business trips landed me on a Skyteam flight, so I stuck with Delta for the past while. While doing some comparison shopping between Delta (SkyTeam) and Air Canada/United (or Star Alliance) economically, apples to apples, Star alliance is often cheaper, and also resulted in shorter flight times, and much fewer connections. More so, they happen to fly to places I want to (and need to) go to more often than Delta or SkyTeam airlines do.
It's too early for me to say good bye to Delta as I do like the overall service (they've treated me very well) but financially, I'm not sure if they are sustainable. There have been instances where I've found flights with Delta so rock bottom, you there was no way to beat them, but I'm unsure if this was a one-off or normal. Hoping some seasoned Delta/SkyTeam flyers out of Toronto/YYZ could chime in. Thanks in advance!
Regards,
bcrdukes
#2
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: Delta Skymiles
Posts: 1,982
IME the YYZ routes have either been insanely cheap or insanely expensive on DL.
Do you fly enough that comparing elite tiers makes sense to you? Or comparing SkyTeam vs. *Alliance? I personally find SkyTeam to be the worst of the alliances, but can’t stand United being based in the states, and mostly flying within the country.
Do you fly enough that comparing elite tiers makes sense to you? Or comparing SkyTeam vs. *Alliance? I personally find SkyTeam to be the worst of the alliances, but can’t stand United being based in the states, and mostly flying within the country.
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: YVR & YYZ
Programs: Aeroplan, Delta Skymiles, SPG
Posts: 382
IME the YYZ routes have either been insanely cheap or insanely expensive on DL.
Do you fly enough that comparing elite tiers makes sense to you? Or comparing SkyTeam vs. *Alliance? I personally find SkyTeam to be the worst of the alliances, but can’t stand United being based in the states, and mostly flying within the country.
Do you fly enough that comparing elite tiers makes sense to you? Or comparing SkyTeam vs. *Alliance? I personally find SkyTeam to be the worst of the alliances, but can’t stand United being based in the states, and mostly flying within the country.
I would like to think that I fly often enough where the elite tiers makes sense more so with Air Canada. I will easily hit the 25K mark, and likely 35K, but 50K is often iffy. I will be taking enough TPAC and TATL flights over the next few years, but hitting that 50K may require a handful of mileage runs. Even with Silver Medallion, Delta has taken very good care of me. Air Canada, not so much. And I was a die-hard AC loyalist/customer and 50K'er for a handful of years.
Little to nothing, unfortunately. It's actually more expensive.
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,042
Hi FT'ers,
I know the answer is obvious - Go back to Air Canada/United (Star Alliance) but I am hoping to get a second (and seasoned) opinion from other FT'ers who live in Toronto (or Canada for that matter.)
So I've been stationed out of Toronto over the past few years, and it looks like I will be sticking around for a while. Star Alliance was always my choice of airlines, but business trips landed me on a Skyteam flight, so I stuck with Delta for the past while. While doing some comparison shopping between Delta (SkyTeam) and Air Canada/United (or Star Alliance) economically, apples to apples, Star alliance is often cheaper, and also resulted in shorter flight times, and much fewer connections. More so, they happen to fly to places I want to (and need to) go to more often than Delta or SkyTeam airlines do.
It's too early for me to say good bye to Delta as I do like the overall service (they've treated me very well) but financially, I'm not sure if they are sustainable. There have been instances where I've found flights with Delta so rock bottom, you there was no way to beat them, but I'm unsure if this was a one-off or normal. Hoping some seasoned Delta/SkyTeam flyers out of Toronto/YYZ could chime in. Thanks in advance!
Regards,
bcrdukes
I know the answer is obvious - Go back to Air Canada/United (Star Alliance) but I am hoping to get a second (and seasoned) opinion from other FT'ers who live in Toronto (or Canada for that matter.)
So I've been stationed out of Toronto over the past few years, and it looks like I will be sticking around for a while. Star Alliance was always my choice of airlines, but business trips landed me on a Skyteam flight, so I stuck with Delta for the past while. While doing some comparison shopping between Delta (SkyTeam) and Air Canada/United (or Star Alliance) economically, apples to apples, Star alliance is often cheaper, and also resulted in shorter flight times, and much fewer connections. More so, they happen to fly to places I want to (and need to) go to more often than Delta or SkyTeam airlines do.
It's too early for me to say good bye to Delta as I do like the overall service (they've treated me very well) but financially, I'm not sure if they are sustainable. There have been instances where I've found flights with Delta so rock bottom, you there was no way to beat them, but I'm unsure if this was a one-off or normal. Hoping some seasoned Delta/SkyTeam flyers out of Toronto/YYZ could chime in. Thanks in advance!
Regards,
bcrdukes
YYZ pricing can be weird. Theres two main facfors, the CAD being where it is and competition, there's multiple airlines competing for passengers. Generally I find DL/WS to be the lowest and quickest combo for transborder flights. Partner China Eastern always has great J fares to China, Asia, and Australia/New Zealand.
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: YVR & YYZ
Programs: Aeroplan, Delta Skymiles, SPG
Posts: 382
Do you mean you think the airline isn't financially stable? If so, that's nothing further from the truth. DL is also the most on time airline. Also when things happen generally their best at helping get you where you need to be.
YYZ pricing can be weird. Theres two main facfors, the CAD being where it is and competition, there's multiple airlines competing for passengers. Generally I find DL/WS to be the lowest and quickest combo for transborder flights. Partner China Eastern always has great J fares to China, Asia, and Australia/New Zealand.
YYZ pricing can be weird. Theres two main facfors, the CAD being where it is and competition, there's multiple airlines competing for passengers. Generally I find DL/WS to be the lowest and quickest combo for transborder flights. Partner China Eastern always has great J fares to China, Asia, and Australia/New Zealand.
Financially as in most economical for me as a consumer. Case in point - it's $400'ish R/T on AC vs. $600+ on DL to fly to LAX where my family is. It has been like this consistently for the past 5 months. Same for going to HKG, SIN, TPE, AMS, FRA, CDG, and DEL, BOM, BLR. I got lucky on Jet Airways once from YYZ with a stopover in AMS, and then off to BLR, and the same back, hence why I stuck with DL. AC (at the time) was cost prohibitive, so my employer said no to the Star Alliance flights (Air Canada and Lufthansa.)
I haven't given China Eastern any thought, to be honest. I will be heading over to Asia at least three times this year, and the DL flights are just punishing, cost wise, and with the number of layovers.
#7
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 5,181
I flew Air Canada/Canadian religiously for 20+ years out of YYZ as an Elite and DL out of ATL for the past 15+ as a PM/DM. Air Canada, by way of history, was a government airline and, as such, customer service was a low priority. DL takes excellent care of their PM/DM members and are extremely customer-service oriented as a culture throughout the system.
YYZ Terminal 1 and the AC transborder lounge are like a Bentley to DL’s Terminal 3 Kia with no lounge and a miserably small waiting area. DL only flies nonstop out of YYZ to ATL, DTW, MSP, JFK and SLC. Westjet flies to many other destinations.
During IRROPS DL is phenomenal and you will get to know the DL staff very well and they are outstanding. But in YYZ AC literally flies everywhere nonstop.
So there are definitely pros and cons to both so you need to decide which items are most important to you.
YYZ Terminal 1 and the AC transborder lounge are like a Bentley to DL’s Terminal 3 Kia with no lounge and a miserably small waiting area. DL only flies nonstop out of YYZ to ATL, DTW, MSP, JFK and SLC. Westjet flies to many other destinations.
During IRROPS DL is phenomenal and you will get to know the DL staff very well and they are outstanding. But in YYZ AC literally flies everywhere nonstop.
So there are definitely pros and cons to both so you need to decide which items are most important to you.
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
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Sorry, I should have clarified.
Financially as in most economical for me as a consumer. Case in point - it's $400'ish R/T on AC vs. $600+ on DL to fly to LAX where my family is. It has been like this consistently for the past 5 months. Same for going to HKG, SIN, TPE, AMS, FRA, CDG, and DEL, BOM, BLR. I got lucky on Jet Airways once from YYZ with a stopover in AMS, and then off to BLR, and the same back, hence why I stuck with DL. AC (at the time) was cost prohibitive, so my employer said no to the Star Alliance flights (Air Canada and Lufthansa.)
I haven't given China Eastern any thought, to be honest. I will be heading over to Asia at least three times this year, and the DL flights are just punishing, cost wise, and with the number of layovers.
Financially as in most economical for me as a consumer. Case in point - it's $400'ish R/T on AC vs. $600+ on DL to fly to LAX where my family is. It has been like this consistently for the past 5 months. Same for going to HKG, SIN, TPE, AMS, FRA, CDG, and DEL, BOM, BLR. I got lucky on Jet Airways once from YYZ with a stopover in AMS, and then off to BLR, and the same back, hence why I stuck with DL. AC (at the time) was cost prohibitive, so my employer said no to the Star Alliance flights (Air Canada and Lufthansa.)
I haven't given China Eastern any thought, to be honest. I will be heading over to Asia at least three times this year, and the DL flights are just punishing, cost wise, and with the number of layovers.
#9
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: IAH, YYC
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 753
It sounds like you are answering your own question. UA/AC seems to fit better for your price and schedule, with the exception of the occasional fare where DL is the winner. Even though you seem to be having better experiences on DL, it doesn’t seem that is enough for you to make the switch.
FWIW, I have been a very happy canadian based 1k on united for the last 4 years.
FWIW, I have been a very happy canadian based 1k on united for the last 4 years.
#10
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: BUF
Programs: Delta Platinum Medallion, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 26
I am based in Buffalo, but often fly out of Toronto internationally, because of non-stops and better pricing to Europe. DL often lowers cost to compete with AC, and I have loved the service on KLM and AF as partners. I find that DL is not competitive out of Toronto going to far-east, however.
Many Canadians fly out of Buffalo for travel to US. You could do better to fly to LAX, especially if purchased far in advance. And JetBlue has added non-stop from BUF to LAX.
Many Canadians fly out of Buffalo for travel to US. You could do better to fly to LAX, especially if purchased far in advance. And JetBlue has added non-stop from BUF to LAX.
#11
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 5,181
I am based in Buffalo, but often fly out of Toronto internationally, because of non-stops and better pricing to Europe. DL often lowers cost to compete with AC, and I have loved the service on KLM and AF as partners. I find that DL is not competitive out of Toronto going to far-east, however.
Many Canadians fly out of Buffalo for travel to US. You could do better to fly to LAX, especially if purchased far in advance. And JetBlue has added non-stop from BUF to LAX.
Many Canadians fly out of Buffalo for travel to US. You could do better to fly to LAX, especially if purchased far in advance. And JetBlue has added non-stop from BUF to LAX.
I have done this many times but have learned the hard way that bad winter weather is far too risky and dangerous to save some money. So I now only do this in the spring, summer and fall.
#12
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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I haven't had any real bad experiences, although not having a Sky Club is an inconvenience. The generic lounge accessible with Priority Pass is sufficient to pass time, although the food sucks. The only other inconvenience is having to carry your own luggage to the baggage check and then not having anyone lift it up for you.
Last edited by hockeyinsider; Mar 12, 2019 at 10:46 am
#13
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#14
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 171
I am a Delta diamond based in YYZ.
- The lounge issue outlined above was solved about a year ago. There is a brand new Priority Pass lounge serving hot food in terminal 3. It used to be a sad terminal, but they recently opened a new food court with some nice options.
- Terminal 3 is much faster curb to gate than Terminal 1.
- You can use Skymiles on Westjet flights, so there is plenty of options there. I have used them for YYZ-LAS and YYZ-London at 15k and 25k direct respectively.
- The lounge issue outlined above was solved about a year ago. There is a brand new Priority Pass lounge serving hot food in terminal 3. It used to be a sad terminal, but they recently opened a new food court with some nice options.
- Terminal 3 is much faster curb to gate than Terminal 1.
- You can use Skymiles on Westjet flights, so there is plenty of options there. I have used them for YYZ-LAS and YYZ-London at 15k and 25k direct respectively.
#15
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I spoke about the lounge in my post. It's still very weak in terms of food. Booze is fairly typical with the wine being from Niagara (as local as it gets). The lounge is, however, very small. It gets crowded.