Relocating to NYC - Sell Me on Delta
Mar 9, 2019, 1:15 pm
#46
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
I mostly agree that if OP can manage to get GS (have the folks on the United board sanity check that assumption) then United is likely a better option given the superiority of frequencies on the core routes. But if it's a choice between 1K and Diamond, Delta is the clear winner. 1K seems totally useless at this point: I get upgraded most of the time as a Diamond, whereas my 1K friends hardly ever do; the Diamond desk provides much better customer service than the 1K desk; and GUCs/RUCs seem easier to use than GPUs/RPUs (although United wins in that it's possible to look for and confirm upgrade availability online). Delta is also superior operationally to United.
Mar 9, 2019, 3:30 pm
#47
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,412
This would have been a much better bet for offering domestic D1 from the bay area rather than trying to compete with UA for BOS. Neither the current equipment (737) nor flight times (Eastbound redeye) lend themselves to success, IMO.
Mar 9, 2019, 5:09 pm
#48
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: RDU
Programs: DL(PM), UA(Silver), AA(EXP) Marriott(Ti), HH(Gold), Hertz(PC)
Posts: 2,650
The 737 (sometimes 757) that does a red-eye SJC-ATL seems to have very good loads (I take that flight several times a year, and I've never seen it less than "pretty full", and often they look for volunteers offering pretty decent voucher deals). It seems to be medallion heavy, I've very rarely been given an upgrade to first, even as a PM on a non-cheap fare.
Mar 9, 2019, 5:32 pm
#49
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,412
The 737 (sometimes 757) that does a red-eye SJC-ATL seems to have very good loads (I take that flight several times a year, and I've never seen it less than "pretty full", and often they look for volunteers offering pretty decent voucher deals). It seems to be medallion heavy, I've very rarely been given an upgrade to first, even as a PM on a non-cheap fare.
Mar 9, 2019, 5:48 pm
#50
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: Delta Diamond , Marriott Ambassador, Alaska MVP Gold, American Airlines Gold
Posts: 77
I asbolutely loath EWR and do everything I can to avoid it (but I lived in Brooklyn, so my perspective from a time/cost perspective is def. skewed), but I agree with the other posters that depending where you live, it could be as convenient as JFK.
When I lived in NYC, I was very happy with Delta (and I still wind up connecting in JFK a fair bit for certain legs now that I’m in SEA), but if you could get GS on United, that would be worth considering. I hate American on any domestic flight but they have very good partnerships abroad which def works in their favor.
I’ve done just at 100k miles this far in 2019 (most of it international) and have been to every city on your list but Frankfurt (I’ve done Berlin tho) on Delta, whereas a colleague has had almost the same travel schedule as me but on United. He’s GS so his experience is that much nicer, but I haven’t noticed a demonstrable difference in routes for either of us (and tho I’m based in SEA, I travel to NYC a lot and other than SYD manu of my longer segments have originated from JFK this year/the end of last year).
As much as I’m really gunning for DM status (I should hit it next trip) and have a solid shot at 360, I can’t deny that in Europe, *A and OW are both really good, and if you’re doing an middle-east trips, superior to ST.
If you’re doing all of this J, I might just look at earning status on two alliances and then make a loyalty decision after.
When I lived in NYC, I was very happy with Delta (and I still wind up connecting in JFK a fair bit for certain legs now that I’m in SEA), but if you could get GS on United, that would be worth considering. I hate American on any domestic flight but they have very good partnerships abroad which def works in their favor.
I’ve done just at 100k miles this far in 2019 (most of it international) and have been to every city on your list but Frankfurt (I’ve done Berlin tho) on Delta, whereas a colleague has had almost the same travel schedule as me but on United. He’s GS so his experience is that much nicer, but I haven’t noticed a demonstrable difference in routes for either of us (and tho I’m based in SEA, I travel to NYC a lot and other than SYD manu of my longer segments have originated from JFK this year/the end of last year).
As much as I’m really gunning for DM status (I should hit it next trip) and have a solid shot at 360, I can’t deny that in Europe, *A and OW are both really good, and if you’re doing an middle-east trips, superior to ST.
If you’re doing all of this J, I might just look at earning status on two alliances and then make a loyalty decision after.
Mar 10, 2019, 5:05 am
#51
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 57
imho, EWR is horrible,
that i haven't flown on united for 20+ years is circumstantial. that i haven't flown in/out of EWR in five years is on purpose.
ticket counters and airport concessions have shorter hours. it's ugly, worse than the oldest terminals at JFK by far, and public transportation to/from NYC during rush hour is an inefficient patchwork of planes, trains, and automobiles (and not in the good way.) i'd say it's the penn station of new york airports. EWR is so demonstrably bad, flights in/out are the cheapest in the region. take that fwiw.
Mar 10, 2019, 8:09 pm
#53
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: BOS
Programs: JetBlue Mosaic, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 264
Wow. Thanks everyone for your expert advice. Some things I had thought of and some things I hadn't. To answer some questions:
1. Not sure where I'll be living yet (in temp housing right now) but leaning towards Union Square/East Village.
2. A few things of importance are: hard product experience, IRROPS handling, timing of flights, best redemption options for when I take my wife on a nice vacation since I'll be gone so much
3. Of all of the advice given, I'm leaning towards the free agency route allowing me to fly more international carriers and pick the best times.
4. Not sure how much more (more or less) domestic traveling I'll be doing but there'll definitely be some YYZ/AUS in there at some points.
5. It's looking like it might be more TXL than FRA, and also a SIN trip once or twice a year as well. Just started last week and still figuring that out.
6. The companies travel policy is relatively agnostic leaving me to my own devices.
1. Not sure where I'll be living yet (in temp housing right now) but leaning towards Union Square/East Village.
2. A few things of importance are: hard product experience, IRROPS handling, timing of flights, best redemption options for when I take my wife on a nice vacation since I'll be gone so much
3. Of all of the advice given, I'm leaning towards the free agency route allowing me to fly more international carriers and pick the best times.
4. Not sure how much more (more or less) domestic traveling I'll be doing but there'll definitely be some YYZ/AUS in there at some points.
5. It's looking like it might be more TXL than FRA, and also a SIN trip once or twice a year as well. Just started last week and still figuring that out.
6. The companies travel policy is relatively agnostic leaving me to my own devices.
Mar 10, 2019, 10:12 pm
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,220
One argument against DL per the last part of your #2 above is that DL does not offer international first class awards on its partners (I think only Korean and Air France even offer an IFC product in the alliance). Also, its award prices are generally much higher than you'll find with UA/Star Alliance, although it's "easier" to find availability as well.
Obviously one key drawback of going free agent is those RDMs will be spread around more, and it will take longer to accumulate enough to go on that nice vacation. This is compounded by having lower status and thus lower mileage multipliers.
I do think that on balance, this is a tough call between DL/SkyTeam and UA/*A.
Obviously one key drawback of going free agent is those RDMs will be spread around more, and it will take longer to accumulate enough to go on that nice vacation. This is compounded by having lower status and thus lower mileage multipliers.
I do think that on balance, this is a tough call between DL/SkyTeam and UA/*A.
Mar 11, 2019, 8:36 am
#55
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,879
I've found United to be much easier to find great partner award redemptions. I also think United is better for both domestic and especially international redemptions on their own metal.
Mar 11, 2019, 9:02 am
#56
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,412
I think the only carrier to fly year-round nonstop service into TXL from the NYC region is UA from EWR. DL offers nonstop service in the busy summer season from JFK, otherwise you would transfer at AMS to KL which has regular flights. This transfer is not terrible but you may want to avoid.
One note about TXL: It is an awful airport. They have been working on a new Berlin airport for years that was supposed to be open several years ago but has had many setbacks. Unclear when it will actually open, but the current TXL is extremely outdated. The security setup is such that once you enter your gate area you are stuck there, with only minimal amenities. Both Lufthansa and Air France have lounges, so that helps for both SA and ST, but they are both outside of security so that can also be frustrating.
One note about TXL: It is an awful airport. They have been working on a new Berlin airport for years that was supposed to be open several years ago but has had many setbacks. Unclear when it will actually open, but the current TXL is extremely outdated. The security setup is such that once you enter your gate area you are stuck there, with only minimal amenities. Both Lufthansa and Air France have lounges, so that helps for both SA and ST, but they are both outside of security so that can also be frustrating.
Last edited by jdrtravel; Mar 11, 2019 at 9:21 am
Mar 11, 2019, 9:17 am
#57
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: DL DM, UA Gold, Alaska MVP, Bonvoy (lol) Ambassador
Posts: 2,994
if you will travel at the beginning or the end of a workday, you WILL want to take a train.
imho, EWR is horrible,
that i haven't flown on united for 20+ years is circumstantial. that i haven't flown in/out of EWR in five years is on purpose.
ticket counters and airport concessions have shorter hours. it's ugly, worse than the oldest terminals at JFK by far, and public transportation to/from NYC during rush hour is an inefficient patchwork of planes, trains, and automobiles (and not in the good way.) i'd say it's the penn station of new york airports. EWR is so demonstrably bad, flights in/out are the cheapest in the region. take that fwiw.
imho, EWR is horrible,
that i haven't flown on united for 20+ years is circumstantial. that i haven't flown in/out of EWR in five years is on purpose.
ticket counters and airport concessions have shorter hours. it's ugly, worse than the oldest terminals at JFK by far, and public transportation to/from NYC during rush hour is an inefficient patchwork of planes, trains, and automobiles (and not in the good way.) i'd say it's the penn station of new york airports. EWR is so demonstrably bad, flights in/out are the cheapest in the region. take that fwiw.
And you complain about EWR, but say you haven't flown United in 20 years. Have you been in Terminal C? It's not bad - certainly no worse than most JFK terminals. If OP takes United, he would be flying out of Terminal C for the most part (unless s/he decides to take LH). I agree that Terminal B is pretty dumpy (the one DL flies into).
Mar 11, 2019, 9:39 am
#58
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,220
I agree that traffic can be a mess, but with the way the MTA is running the subway these days I'd almost rather take the 15-30 minute delay in a comfortable Uber than sit stuck on the E line for an indefinite period of time for no apparent reason. In fact, if you have easy access to Penn Station, I'd actually probably prefer to take the Northeast Corridor line than mess with the MTA. Much more comfortable, fewer delays, and not any longer than the trip to JFK if you're already near Penn Station.
Hmm, it seems UA has followed DL in offering variable pricing on domestic awards (at least coach?) As opposed to saver vs. anytime (for 2x)? I haven't stayed that up-to-date on UA. On that basis, availability does seem similar on domestic flights -- meaning pretty good, but mileage requirements will vary, likely tied to the underlying cash cost of the flight. I do agree that internationally UA is better because of the size of *A (though I don't really see great premium cabin availability/pricing on UA metal), so perhaps they do win overall.
Mar 11, 2019, 11:05 am
#59
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,879
Hmm, it seems UA has followed DL in offering variable pricing on domestic awards (at least coach?) As opposed to saver vs. anytime (for 2x)? I haven't stayed that up-to-date on UA. On that basis, availability does seem similar on domestic flights -- meaning pretty good, but mileage requirements will vary, likely tied to the underlying cash cost of the flight. I do agree that internationally UA is better because of the size of *A (though I don't really see great premium cabin availability/pricing on UA metal), so perhaps they do win overall.
I think United is better than Delta when it comes to not restricting awards with advance purchase requirements (though they do have a close-in fee for non-elites) and not restricting one-way tickets (Delta has been playing around with this for TALT awards).
Mar 11, 2019, 11:44 am
#60
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NYC
Programs: DL Platinum, AA Plat Pro, Bonvoy Lifetime Platinum, JetBlue Mosaic 3, Amtrak Select
Posts: 965
Native new yorker here.... it's going to depend where you end up living. That's it. I live 2 blocks off the FDR and can get to LGA in 15 minutes 90% of the time. My work travel fits in nicely with the LGA route map, but having to rely on EWR or JFK from my location would change the equation drastically for me. You don't want to be traveling 15 hours a day and then be stuck in 2 hours of traffic because you were forced into one airport due to alliance preferences.
I agree with the advice on being a free agent... adding SIN to the mix (a place I visit 1x/year for work), you want to be on the direct flight vs connecting in PVG/PEK/NRT via other partners. So if you are dead set on choosing an airline, I'd favor UA (which kills me as a DL die hard) solely because of going one way vs connecting in PEK/PVG/NRT for all your other choices. I've done J on SQ JFK-FRA and it's an easy night flight with great service. The rest of your routings... just play around and figure out which routings/days/airport combo works the best.
If you end up in Union Square, you'll generally have better luck taking a cab to Newark than JFK, but you'll also have the backup option of relatively easy (but not seamless/one seat ride) of the PATH to Newark train station or subway to Penn Station and taking NJ Transit from there. Alternatively for JFK, you'll have the option to take the Airtrain to Penn Station an an easy subway or taxi back to Union Square.
I agree with the advice on being a free agent... adding SIN to the mix (a place I visit 1x/year for work), you want to be on the direct flight vs connecting in PVG/PEK/NRT via other partners. So if you are dead set on choosing an airline, I'd favor UA (which kills me as a DL die hard) solely because of going one way vs connecting in PEK/PVG/NRT for all your other choices. I've done J on SQ JFK-FRA and it's an easy night flight with great service. The rest of your routings... just play around and figure out which routings/days/airport combo works the best.
If you end up in Union Square, you'll generally have better luck taking a cab to Newark than JFK, but you'll also have the backup option of relatively easy (but not seamless/one seat ride) of the PATH to Newark train station or subway to Penn Station and taking NJ Transit from there. Alternatively for JFK, you'll have the option to take the Airtrain to Penn Station an an easy subway or taxi back to Union Square.
