|
Simultaneous Submit to overcome Z1 inventory
Trying to get two seats at cheapest J pricing with Z1 inventory. Anyone have experience with ticketing one in each of two browsers with simulatenous submit? DL.com and Expedia (via AMEX). |
It won't work. One seat in Z = one seat in Z. You cannot magically make another Z seat appear with this trick...
Whichever browser is second to the finish line will most likely error out with the webpage displaying the fare has gone up. |
Yeah the DL system is smarter/faster than you can be in this case. One of the browsers will win and one will loose.
|
i had a similar issue happen before but I wasn't trying to simultaneously book. I guess I was just the slower of the two people. I called Delta up and they honored the price I was originally quoted. But ymmv
|
Originally Posted by Colin
(Post 30810926)
Trying to get two seats at cheapest J pricing with Z1 inventory. Anyone have experience with ticketing one in each of two browsers with simulatenous submit? DL.com and Expedia (via AMEX). |
There's nothing that says once a Z ticket is sold, that the airline won't ever decide to add another seat to the Z bucket. Maybe in an hour, maybe in a day, maybe in a week. Maybe.
|
If the TA has guaranteed sell then it would overbook Z. I doubt DL gives that to anyone other than maybe partner airlines though.
|
Originally Posted by rylan
(Post 30811624)
Yeah the DL system is smarter/faster than you can be in this case. One of the browsers will win and one will loose.
|
Originally Posted by sdadept
(Post 30811673)
I can't say too much, but having intimate knowledge of how the reservation code works, this is impossible. The inventory column is briefly locked while a reservation is made. First one in wins.
|
Originally Posted by sdadept
(Post 30811673)
I can't say too much, but having intimate knowledge of how the reservation code works, this is impossible. The inventory column is briefly locked while a reservation is made. First one in wins.
|
Originally Posted by 3Cforme
(Post 30812463)
I'm interested in that mechanism. I have found itineraries (non-stop, so it's not a married segment thing) found by ITA Matrix that did not found inventory on delta.com or aa.com. But Orbitz has been able to ticket them at the ITA Matrix price, and tickets were honored for travel.
|
Originally Posted by bennos
(Post 30812498)
There's a difference between searching for available inventory and booking it once found. It's entirely plausible that ITA has better searching algorithms than the airline websites (airline inventory searches are a notoriously difficult computational problem to solve), or that caches got in the way, or that the website had a bug, or that the website implemented a different search algorithm, etc. If for whatever reason the search doesn't find existing inventory then the frontend has no way to know to ask to book it.
Of course, another time in the last few weeks I was also able to find a fare on Matrix and the agent was able to see it as well, so there was probably just a gremlin in the system. |
Originally Posted by bennos
(Post 30812498)
There's a difference between searching for available inventory and booking it once found. It's entirely plausible that ITA has better searching algorithms than the airline websites (airline inventory searches are a notoriously difficult computational problem to solve), or that caches got in the way, or that the website had a bug, or that the website implemented a different search algorithm, etc. If for whatever reason the search doesn't find existing inventory then the frontend has no way to know to ask to book it.
|
Some of these systems use somewhat outdated information for the search and then only verify real time inventory availability during the purchase step. This is why one sometimes sees the message that the fare is no longer available after it appears during a search. The alternative of setting aside inventory during the search would be less desirable, although I see this happening on other types of websites that sell restricted inventory and tell you that it's being held for you for a certain period of time. Starriott Bonvoy shows the time remaining, although apparently doesn't pull the inventory until you go past the search phase and begin to book the room. Eventbrite appears to set aside the tickets at an earlier stage (again showing you have much time you have to complete the transaction), although typically on that website there's no search and consider step as one goes there to purchase a ticket to some particular event. In the famous "fraudulent" ticketing case of the AA elite who did searches to check likely upgrade availability. It was claimed that AA sets aside inventory and creates a PNR at a much earlier phase than other airline websites generally do. |
Originally Posted by Colin
(Post 30810926)
Trying to get two seats at cheapest J pricing with Z1 inventory. Anyone have experience with ticketing one in each of two browsers with simulatenous submit? DL.com and Expedia (via AMEX). |
Originally Posted by audio-nut
(Post 30811916)
If the TA has guaranteed sell then it would overbook Z. I doubt DL gives that to anyone other than maybe partner airlines though.
|
Originally Posted by SamOF
(Post 30813440)
What’s guaranteed sell? There are times when lags between various GDS, the airline res system, etc., cause inventory to not be instantly synched, but the airlines accept this as a cost of doing business and will honor any sell request that is confirmed by the GDS. If "guaranteed sell" is a thing, it more likely applies to a carrier's guarantee of honoring a sell request that is confirmed by the GDS even if the airline has zero availability in its native reservation system. |
I think the answer here is that...hey, you might get lucky, you might not. In theory you shouldn't, but the airfare gods are random and capricious and stranger things have happened.
|
I would hit the purchase button at DL.com then the OTA. It might work out.
|
confirming firsthand A1 can yield two A tickets via simultaneous submit for $600 one-way flat beds on HA. you’ll never see more than A1 between LAX OGG towards end of schedule |
Originally Posted by Colin
(Post 30937748)
confirming firsthand A1 can yield two A tickets via simultaneous submit for $600 one-way flat beds on HA. you’ll never see more than A1 between LAX OGG towards end of schedule Another factor to consider is that Yield Management fare allocations are dynamic.
In between your 2 "simultaneous" transactions, the mainframe probably processed (and completed) several hundreds (if not thousands) other transactions. My experience is with Sabre, which could apply to HA but not DL. However, most airline reservation systems run on a similar mainframe operating platform, so high level concepts are similar. |
Hey - if you want to try, go for it.
Remember, if it fails, you have 24 hours to cancel the ticket you may no longer want. |
that’s a lot of words that don’t dispute the fact that simultaneous submit works for HA A1 to get more than one seat, from first hand experience this week. no one who cares about getting the lowest price should accept the naysayers in this thread that it’s not possible. |
Originally Posted by Colin
(Post 30939882)
that’s a lot of words that don’t dispute the fact that simultaneous submit works for HA A1 to get more than one seat, from first hand experience this week. no one who cares about getting the lowest price should accept the naysayers in this thread that it’s not possible. |
I wonder if it makes a difference (i.e. helps) if the OTA is selling a bulk/consolidator fare that books into Z, but is an opaque fare.
I'd probably try it with DL.com first, and if the OTA fails you have 24hr to cancel with Delta. |
Originally Posted by Colin
(Post 30939882)
that’s a lot of words that don’t dispute the fact that simultaneous submit works for HA A1 to get more than one seat, from first hand experience this week. no one who cares about getting the lowest price should accept the naysayers in this thread that it’s not possible. |
the way it works on HA, despite the know it alls who haven’t tried what i just literally did this week, is that one that one submit tickets normally and the second submit gets a PNR only with no eticket. it takes some extra minutes until the 2nd submit gets ticketed. literally no one cares about the distinction of simultaneous vs. really really close. the only relevant data point is that, for HA, if you attempt simultaneous submit, you will achieve your desired goal. i buy on HA all the time. sometimes just one ticket. and the A1 goes to A0 after one ticket. for days , forever often. |
Originally Posted by Colin
(Post 30940055)
the way it works on HA, despite the know it alls who haven’t tried what i just literally did this week, is that one that one submit tickets normally and the second submit gets a PNR only with no eticket. it takes some extra minutes until the 2nd submit gets ticketed. literally no one cares about the distinction of simultaneous vs. really really close. the only relevant data point is that, for HA, if you attempt simultaneous submit, you will achieve your desired goal. i buy on HA all the time. sometimes just one ticket. and the A1 goes to A0 after one ticket. for days , forever often. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...3663e8caeb.jpg |
yeah, it is. at HA, there’s obviously an exception process to not reject and instead save the PNR without ticketing in the case where the inventory disappears just after submit. it is this exception process that enables a savvy traveler to sneak an A inventory seat that HA didn’t want to otherwise sell. |
Originally Posted by Colin
(Post 30940116)
yeah, it is. at HA, there’s obviously an exception process to not reject and instead save the PNR without ticketing in the case where the inventory disappears just after submit. it is this exception process that enables a savvy traveler to sneak an A inventory seat that HA didn’t want to otherwise sell. |
My experience has been that many flight inventory systems (unlike event tickets, for example) honor fares as long as they are in your cart / you're checking out.
Case in point: I was able to book 6 tickets on United in a fare class that only had 2 left in inventory by using simultaneous sessions. In fact, I booked one of them 10 or 15 minutes after the other using Incognito mode (and in another browser session I confirmed that the fare class was no longer available). The logic for this policy is simple: it's a frustrating user experience to be checking out for a flight and then be told that the price went up. At the point that a flight is in risk of being oversold, the price is so high that it's unlikely that there will be simultaneous bookings. There are, of course, exceptions. Award inventory, for example, is notoriously stingy. |
Originally Posted by rucksack
(Post 30941825)
My experience has been that many flight inventory systems (unlike event tickets, for example) honor fares as long as they are in your cart / you're checking out.
Case in point: I was able to book 6 tickets on United in a fare class that only had 2 left in inventory by using simultaneous sessions. In fact, I booked one of them 10 or 15 minutes after the other using Incognito mode (and in another browser session I confirmed that the fare class was no longer available). The logic for this policy is simple: it's a frustrating user experience to be checking out for a flight and then be told that the price went up. At the point that a flight is in risk of being oversold, the price is so high that it's unlikely that there will be simultaneous bookings. There are, of course, exceptions. Award inventory, for example, is notoriously stingy. |
Originally Posted by Colin
(Post 30942189)
let’s refocus this conversation on the pedant’s knit regarding the most salient point which is the proper use of the word simultaneous and the very specialized IT skill of only a database administrator fully appreciating small fractions of a second. |
So far, we've got:
- Three pages of people arguing whether this should be possible - One person who says it's possible on HA - Lots of good reasons why it won't work (ACID, CAP theorem, database transactions, etc) - Anecdotal evidence that airlines will honor the fares even if there's no availability if it's in your cart and you're trying to check out quickly .. but nobody has actually tried? @Colin it sounds like it's time to put your money where your mouth here is and let us know |
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 7:01 pm. |
This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.