Delta A330-900neo Best Premium Select + Seats (Consolidated)
Mar 28, 2019, 2:04 pm
#76
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SEA
Programs: AS MVPG, DL FO, Marriott Gold, Hertz 5 Whatevers
Posts: 1,098
If the acquisition cost was as low as some have speculated on the 339, it could make up for a fair amount of the difference. Remember, the 787-9 and A330-900 both have nearly identical seating capacity. (And, notably, the 339 achieves that with 2-4-2 seating in the back, which is more passenger friendly than the 787’s 3-3-3.).
It comes down to fuel efficiency and range. The 787-9 has advantages in both, so the difference is greater the longer your route length is. On short routes, the two aircraft are a lot closer in operating costs than you might think, particularly in a relatively low fuel cost environment like we are in right now. And when you factor in acquisition cost, and peanut butter the rumored $30-40M savings across all your flights, it looks even closer still.
In Delta’s case, shopping for an airplane that is based in Seattle, the advantage of range is way less important: SEA has a very favorable geographic position for an international hub - sometimes in non obvious ways. Stealing from a Port slide- FRA is closer to SEA than DFW; SIN is closer to SEA than LAX; AUH is closer to SEA than ATL; DEL is closer to SEA than JFK. That means that even SEA-SIN or SEA-SYD are within the advertised range of the 339; sure, maybe a little payload restricted, but possible. So they have a lot less need for an aircraft designed to go further like the 789.
Mar 28, 2019, 2:36 pm
#77
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.7MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,944
TAP, the other current operator, claims a similar range of 13,000 km.
Manufacturer estimates are always optimistic, though, and it’s super unlikely Delta would push the limits like that. And individual airlines often configure aircraft to trade off range for other attributes like efficiency, so wouldn’t surprise me at all if Delta elected to make theirs much less capable to save fuel burn in other ways, even if it was just in paperwork. They said upfront they only plan to use the 339 on medium range TATLs and select TPACs, so this could have been planned in from the beginning. Delta could also just be more conservative about how they calculate range than Airbus is.
All of that said, it’s a little interesting, given the numbers posted on Delta.com, that they are using the aircraft on SEA-PVG, which is 5722 of the 5900 mile stated range. Add a donut or two around Shanghai’s infamously congested airspace and you’re out of range... so there’s clearly plenty of buffer built in here. 5900 could have been chosen as a target because it was just larger than the longest route they envisioned using the plane on.
Note that DL’s site also says the 777-200ER and LR have the same range, which... well, I think some Boeing engineers who worked hard to add an extra 2500km range to the LR would have something to say about that
. If that isn’t a mistake, I suspect DL has just rated the aircraft identically in paperwork for operational flexibility because they don’t currently need the longer range of the LR.tl;dr the 339 could probably do SEA-SIN/SYD in a pinch, but it’s unlikely DL would do it, and we’re more likely to see a 350 or 777 instead if they opened Singapore. Which they probably won’t as long as SQ is in town and NRT is still clinging to life.
Mar 28, 2019, 4:55 pm
#78
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SEA
Programs: AS MVPG, DL FO, Marriott Gold, Hertz 5 Whatevers
Posts: 1,098
Airbus advertises the range at 13,334 km, or 8,285 miles. Source: https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/pass.../a330-900.html
TAP, the other current operator, claims a similar range of 13,000 km.
Manufacturer estimates are always optimistic, though, and it’s super unlikely Delta would push the limits like that. And individual airlines often configure aircraft to trade off range for other attributes like efficiency, so wouldn’t surprise me at all if Delta elected to make theirs much less capable to save fuel burn in other ways, even if it was just in paperwork. They said upfront they only plan to use the 339 on medium range TATLs and select TPACs, so this could have been planned in from the beginning. Delta could also just be more conservative about how they calculate range than Airbus is.
All of that said, it’s a little interesting, given the numbers posted on Delta.com, that they are using the aircraft on SEA-PVG, which is 5722 of the 5900 mile stated range. Add a donut or two around Shanghai’s infamously congested airspace and you’re out of range... so there’s clearly plenty of buffer built in here. 5900 could have been chosen as a target because it was just larger than the longest route they envisioned using the plane on.
Note that DL’s site also says the 777-200ER and LR have the same range, which... well, I think some Boeing engineers who worked hard to add an extra 2500km range to the LR would have something to say about that
. If that isn’t a mistake, I suspect DL has just rated the aircraft identically in paperwork for operational flexibility because they don’t currently need the longer range of the LR.tl;dr the 339 could probably do SEA-SIN/SYD in a pinch, but it’s unlikely DL would do it, and we’re more likely to see a 350 or 777 instead if they opened Singapore. Which they probably won’t as long as SQ is in town and NRT is still clinging to life.
Apr 6, 2019, 5:18 pm
#79
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: PHX Sky Harbor
Posts: 378
I would appreciate any amount of input on if DL's 339's will come late in the months of April, May, June, and July since they "really" aren't going to be placed into customer service until July 1st (SEA-ICN). But if DL follows the same concept on the 339's as they did on the 359's where they were delivered somewhat ahead of when they went into customer service maybe for crews to become familiar to the differences. DL did not fly the 359's domestically (as far as I know) so, the 339's will probably be handled the same way - especially as they are coming from TLS with the 4 cabin layout in place.
Apr 6, 2019, 6:42 pm
#80
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
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I would appreciate any amount of input on if DL's 339's will come late in the months of April, May, June, and July since they "really" aren't going to be placed into customer service until July 1st (SEA-ICN). But if DL follows the same concept on the 339's as they did on the 359's where they were delivered somewhat ahead of when they went into customer service maybe for crews to become familiar to the differences. DL did not fly the 359's domestically (as far as I know) so, the 339's will probably be handled the same way - especially as they are coming from TLS with the 4 cabin layout in place.
Apr 8, 2019, 1:44 pm
#81
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: ATL
Programs: DL
Posts: 47
With the disappointment of the 764 refurb, does anyone think we're actually getting the doors still? The 339 is now loaded for SEA > PVG and it's missing the [SUITE] tag used on the 772 and 359. I'm thinking they may have sacrificed privacy for comfort (which I'm sad about, but mostly ok with....)
Apr 8, 2019, 2:42 pm
#82
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.7MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,944
With the disappointment of the 764 refurb, does anyone think we're actually getting the doors still? The 339 is now loaded for SEA > PVG and it's missing the [SUITE] tag used on the 772 and 359. I'm thinking they may have sacrificed privacy for comfort (which I'm sad about, but mostly ok with....)
It would be a real bummer if the 339 ended up with less desirable J seats than the 332/333!
Apr 8, 2019, 3:41 pm
#83
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Join Date: Jun 2001
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Your opinion of those tags is, IMHO, much too high for future flights. A few weeks ago A220s were appearing with 'New Flagship' (there was a post) which a few days ago changed to 'New interior' and is again back to New Flagship.
Apr 8, 2019, 8:44 pm
#84
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta PM, Hyatt Discoverist, Hertz PC
Posts: 2,303
It’s a fair question. We know that Airbus applied for regulatory approval for the doors on the 339 for Delta, so they were definitely in the plans at one point. But lately there’s been no formal acknowledgment of them, so it’s possible that whatever certification disaster befell the 764 applied to these seats as well
It would be a real bummer if the 339 ended up with less desirable J seats than the 332/333!
https://www.regulations.gov/contentS...ontentType=pdf
Apr 8, 2019, 11:04 pm
#85
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SEA
Programs: AS MVPG, DL FO, Marriott Gold, Hertz 5 Whatevers
Posts: 1,098
FWIW I do see suites on the A339 out of SEA today on DL's website, but I'm also seeing the old interface.
Apr 9, 2019, 2:11 pm
#86
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ATL
Posts: 637
Airbus advertises the range at 13,334 km, or 8,285 miles. Source: https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/pass.../a330-900.html
TAP, the other current operator, claims a similar range of 13,000 km.
TAP, the other current operator, claims a similar range of 13,000 km.
The A330-900 further increases the maximum takeoff weight to 251 tonnes, and I assume has the center tank like the later A330-300 versions, along with the more efficient engines. So the 13,334km range is probably based on a typical passenger load.
To answer the question, the A330-900 is in the same ballpark in both passenger capacity (~300) and range (~13,000km) as the Boeing 777-200ER. It should be able to handle the same routes.
Apr 9, 2019, 5:39 pm
#87
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: HH, Asiana club, Elevated, Skymiles, Fairmont President's Club
Posts: 42
The FAA granted permission for the A339 to have doors in their mini suites about a month ago. It’s important to note the 764 never even made it to a request for permission for FAA certification. I would expect full A359-style suites on the A339, but not on any of the 767s.
https://www.regulations.gov/contentS...ontentType=pdf
Apr 9, 2019, 5:41 pm
#88
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manhattan Beach, California
Programs: BMI Diamond Club Gold forever
Posts: 6,367
I sure hope so. I sold my kids on SEA-PVG-REP on the promise that they would get doors that way vs SEA-HKG-REP on CX where they would just get a very nice biz seat. They haven’t had doors since an EY F flight we took as a family. Just to set straight that DL suites are just a biz seat w a door, I’m going to do a video review on the flight with them... maybe I’ll title it “What a ten year old thinks about Delta’s ‘Suite’ marketing”...
Apr 9, 2019, 5:58 pm
#89
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: HH, Asiana club, Elevated, Skymiles, Fairmont President's Club
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Last edited by ZJ3000; Apr 9, 2019 at 6:12 pm Reason: Error
Apr 9, 2019, 6:26 pm
#90
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SJC
Programs: DL PM MM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 3,276
I think the 767 is too narrow for doors unless they went to a 1-1-1 configuration. The 339 has more width. The 767-400 has 4.72 m of width of the A339 has 5.26 m. If both are using a 1-2-1 configuration, there is a lot more room for seat width and doors. It makes a 767 very undesirable if you are flying in J.
