Delta A330-900neo Seat Config Released

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Old Mar 28, 19, 2:04 pm
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Originally Posted by BenA View Post


If the acquisition cost was as low as some have speculated on the 339, it could make up for a fair amount of the difference. Remember, the 787-9 and A330-900 both have nearly identical seating capacity. (And, notably, the 339 achieves that with 2-4-2 seating in the back, which is more passenger friendly than the 787ís 3-3-3.).

It comes down to fuel efficiency and range. The 787-9 has advantages in both, so the difference is greater the longer your route length is. On short routes, the two aircraft are a lot closer in operating costs than you might think, particularly in a relatively low fuel cost environment like we are in right now. And when you factor in acquisition cost, and peanut butter the rumored $30-40M savings across all your flights, it looks even closer still.

In Deltaís case, shopping for an airplane that is based in Seattle, the advantage of range is way less important: SEA has a very favorable geographic position for an international hub - sometimes in non obvious ways. Stealing from a Port slide- FRA is closer to SEA than DFW; SIN is closer to SEA than LAX; AUH is closer to SEA than ATL; DEL is closer to SEA than JFK. That means that even SEA-SIN or SEA-SYD are within the advertised range of the 339; sure, maybe a little payload restricted, but possible. So they have a lot less need for an aircraft designed to go further like the 789.
How is SEA-SYD within the range of the 339? DL says that it has a range of 5,900 miles, and SEA-SYD is almost 8,000 miles.
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Old Mar 28, 19, 2:36 pm
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Originally Posted by ab2013 View Post


How is SEA-SYD within the range of the 339? DL says that it has a range of 5,900 miles, and SEA-SYD is almost 8,000 miles.
Airbus advertises the range at 13,334 km, or 8,285 miles. Source: https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/pass.../a330-900.html

TAP, the other current operator, claims a similar range of 13,000 km.

Manufacturer estimates are always optimistic, though, and itís super unlikely Delta would push the limits like that. And individual airlines often configure aircraft to trade off range for other attributes like efficiency, so wouldnít surprise me at all if Delta elected to make theirs much less capable to save fuel burn in other ways, even if it was just in paperwork. They said upfront they only plan to use the 339 on medium range TATLs and select TPACs, so this could have been planned in from the beginning. Delta could also just be more conservative about how they calculate range than Airbus is.

All of that said, itís a little interesting, given the numbers posted on Delta.com, that they are using the aircraft on SEA-PVG, which is 5722 of the 5900 mile stated range. Add a donut or two around Shanghaiís infamously congested airspace and youíre out of range... so thereís clearly plenty of buffer built in here. 5900 could have been chosen as a target because it was just larger than the longest route they envisioned using the plane on.

Note that DLís site also says the 777-200ER and LR have the same range, which... well, I think some Boeing engineers who worked hard to add an extra 2500km range to the LR would have something to say about that . If that isnít a mistake, I suspect DL has just rated the aircraft identically in paperwork for operational flexibility because they donít currently need the longer range of the LR.

tl;dr the 339 could probably do SEA-SIN/SYD in a pinch, but itís unlikely DL would do it, and weíre more likely to see a 350 or 777 instead if they opened Singapore. Which they probably wonít as long as SQ is in town and NRT is still clinging to life.
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Old Mar 28, 19, 4:55 pm
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Originally Posted by BenA View Post


Airbus advertises the range at 13,334 km, or 8,285 miles. Source: https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/pass.../a330-900.html

TAP, the other current operator, claims a similar range of 13,000 km.

Manufacturer estimates are always optimistic, though, and itís super unlikely Delta would push the limits like that. And individual airlines often configure aircraft to trade off range for other attributes like efficiency, so wouldnít surprise me at all if Delta elected to make theirs much less capable to save fuel burn in other ways, even if it was just in paperwork. They said upfront they only plan to use the 339 on medium range TATLs and select TPACs, so this could have been planned in from the beginning. Delta could also just be more conservative about how they calculate range than Airbus is.

All of that said, itís a little interesting, given the numbers posted on Delta.com, that they are using the aircraft on SEA-PVG, which is 5722 of the 5900 mile stated range. Add a donut or two around Shanghaiís infamously congested airspace and youíre out of range... so thereís clearly plenty of buffer built in here. 5900 could have been chosen as a target because it was just larger than the longest route they envisioned using the plane on.

Note that DLís site also says the 777-200ER and LR have the same range, which... well, I think some Boeing engineers who worked hard to add an extra 2500km range to the LR would have something to say about that . If that isnít a mistake, I suspect DL has just rated the aircraft identically in paperwork for operational flexibility because they donít currently need the longer range of the LR.

tl;dr the 339 could probably do SEA-SIN/SYD in a pinch, but itís unlikely DL would do it, and weíre more likely to see a 350 or 777 instead if they opened Singapore. Which they probably wonít as long as SQ is in town and NRT is still clinging to life.
Yeah the discrepancy is a bit weird. Did DL take a variant with a lower MTOW to get a larger discount?
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Old Apr 6, 19, 5:18 pm
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I would appreciate any amount of input on if DL's 339's will come late in the months of April, May, June, and July since they "really" aren't going to be placed into customer service until July 1st (SEA-ICN). But if DL follows the same concept on the 339's as they did on the 359's where they were delivered somewhat ahead of when they went into customer service maybe for crews to become familiar to the differences. DL did not fly the 359's domestically (as far as I know) so, the 339's will probably be handled the same way - especially as they are coming from TLS with the 4 cabin layout in place.
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Old Apr 6, 19, 6:42 pm
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Originally Posted by ChamplinAl View Post
I would appreciate any amount of input on if DL's 339's will come late in the months of April, May, June, and July since they "really" aren't going to be placed into customer service until July 1st (SEA-ICN). But if DL follows the same concept on the 339's as they did on the 359's where they were delivered somewhat ahead of when they went into customer service maybe for crews to become familiar to the differences. DL did not fly the 359's domestically (as far as I know) so, the 339's will probably be handled the same way - especially as they are coming from TLS with the 4 cabin layout in place.
No real need for familiarization flights. A350 was new model and it had a brand new cabin. None of that applies to these.
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Old Apr 8, 19, 1:44 pm
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Originally Posted by jrkmsp View Post
Yes, Airbus applied for an exemption to allow doors on the A330-900 for an "unnamed American carrier." Of course, there's only one American carrier with the A330-900 on order...
With the disappointment of the 764 refurb, does anyone think we're actually getting the doors still? The 339 is now loaded for SEA > PVG and it's missing the [SUITE] tag used on the 772 and 359. I'm thinking they may have sacrificed privacy for comfort (which I'm sad about, but mostly ok with....)
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Old Apr 8, 19, 2:42 pm
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Originally Posted by No Smoking View Post
With the disappointment of the 764 refurb, does anyone think we're actually getting the doors still? The 339 is now loaded for SEA > PVG and it's missing the [SUITE] tag used on the 772 and 359. I'm thinking they may have sacrificed privacy for comfort (which I'm sad about, but mostly ok with....)
Itís a fair question. We know that Airbus applied for regulatory approval for the doors on the 339 for Delta, so they were definitely in the plans at one point. But lately thereís been no formal acknowledgment of them, so itís possible that whatever certification disaster befell the 764 applied to these seats as well

It would be a real bummer if the 339 ended up with less desirable J seats than the 332/333!
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Old Apr 8, 19, 3:41 pm
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Originally Posted by No Smoking View Post
With the disappointment of the 764 refurb, does anyone think we're actually getting the doors still? The 339 is now loaded for SEA > PVG and it's missing the [SUITE] tag used on the 772 and 359.
Your opinion of those tags is, IMHO, much too high for future flights. A few weeks ago A220s were appearing with 'New Flagship' (there was a post) which a few days ago changed to 'New interior' and is again back to New Flagship.
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Old Apr 8, 19, 8:44 pm
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Originally Posted by BenA View Post


Itís a fair question. We know that Airbus applied for regulatory approval for the doors on the 339 for Delta, so they were definitely in the plans at one point. But lately thereís been no formal acknowledgment of them, so itís possible that whatever certification disaster befell the 764 applied to these seats as well

It would be a real bummer if the 339 ended up with less desirable J seats than the 332/333!
The FAA granted permission for the A339 to have doors in their mini suites about a month ago. Itís important to note the 764 never even made it to a request for permission for FAA certification. I would expect full A359-style suites on the A339, but not on any of the 767s.

https://www.regulations.gov/contentS...ontentType=pdf
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Old Apr 8, 19, 11:04 pm
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
Your opinion of those tags is, IMHO, much too high for future flights. A few weeks ago A220s were appearing with 'New Flagship' (there was a post) which a few days ago changed to 'New interior' and is again back to New Flagship.
Either DL IT is performing an A/B test to see what delivers higher revenue numbers or serving up another bug. DL IT's track record makes me inclined to believe the latter, unfortunately.

FWIW I do see suites on the A339 out of SEA today on DL's website, but I'm also seeing the old interface.

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Old Apr 9, 19, 2:11 pm
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Originally Posted by BenA View Post
Airbus advertises the range at 13,334 km, or 8,285 miles. Source: https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/pass.../a330-900.html

TAP, the other current operator, claims a similar range of 13,000 km.
The A330-300 max range is about 12,000km with zero payload, about 10,000km at the "knee" of the range/payload chart (maximum takeoff weight at maximum fuel, limiting for payload), and about 7,000km at the maximum takeoff weight, maximum payload weight, limiting for fuel. All of these values are for the 233 metric tonne maximum takeoff weight. The 242 tonne version also has an additional center fuel tank giving it the same fuel capacity as the A330-200. The higher MTOW and greater fuel capacity mean these later versions have more range than the listed ranges for the 233 tonne version.

The A330-900 further increases the maximum takeoff weight to 251 tonnes, and I assume has the center tank like the later A330-300 versions, along with the more efficient engines. So the 13,334km range is probably based on a typical passenger load.

To answer the question, the A330-900 is in the same ballpark in both passenger capacity (~300) and range (~13,000km) as the Boeing 777-200ER. It should be able to handle the same routes.
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Old Apr 9, 19, 5:39 pm
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Originally Posted by jrkmsp View Post


The FAA granted permission for the A339 to have doors in their mini suites about a month ago. Itís important to note the 764 never even made it to a request for permission for FAA certification. I would expect full A359-style suites on the A339, but not on any of the 767s.

https://www.regulations.gov/contentS...ontentType=pdf
764ís D1 cabin will be refurbished with Thompson Vantage no doors
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Old Apr 9, 19, 5:41 pm
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Originally Posted by No Smoking View Post
does anyone think we're actually getting the doors still?
I sure hope so. I sold my kids on SEA-PVG-REP on the promise that they would get doors that way vs SEA-HKG-REP on CX where they would just get a very nice biz seat. They havenít had doors since an EY F flight we took as a family. Just to set straight that DL suites are just a biz seat w a door, Iím going to do a video review on the flight with them... maybe Iíll title it ďWhat a ten year old thinks about Deltaís ĎSuiteí marketingĒ...
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Old Apr 9, 19, 5:58 pm
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Originally Posted by ab2013 View Post


How is SEA-SYD within the range of the 339? DL says that it has a range of 5,900 miles, and SEA-SYD is almost 8,000 miles.

SEA SYD 6,725NM (7,739 imperial miles)
A330-800neo range 8,150NM
A330-900neo range 7,200NM

Last edited by ZJ3000; Apr 9, 19 at 6:12 pm Reason: Error
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Old Apr 9, 19, 6:26 pm
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I think the 767 is too narrow for doors unless they went to a 1-1-1 configuration. The 339 has more width. The 767-400 has 4.72 m of width of the A339 has 5.26 m. If both are using a 1-2-1 configuration, there is a lot more room for seat width and doors. It makes a 767 very undesirable if you are flying in J.
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