DOT starts new proceeding for added HND slots
DOT is out this afternoon with an order inviting proposals for a dozen new daytime flights to Tokyo Haneda airport. Even if Delta gets just three slots (SEA, ATL, DTW), I expect that would be the end of Delta's service to Narita. I'd say 4 slots is far more likely, which means one of PDX/HNL/SIN/MNL would also move. No matter what, though, by Summer Season 2020, I suspect Delta will have Gatwick'd Narita.
Current NRT service: HA: HNL 1x AA: ORD, DFW, LAX all 1x UA: ORD, DEN, HNL, IAH, LAX, EWR, SFO, IAD all 1x and GUM 3x So, most likely distribution is 1 to Hawaiian, 3 to American, and then either 4-4 Delta/United or 5-3 Delta/United because of United's JV with ANA. Will be fascinating to watch. I suspect Delta will seek seven — then the question becomes what would they forego if they only get five. Here's the full order: https://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf103/476.pdf |
While it might mean yet another shift from NRT to HND, I think saying it will be 'the end' for Delta flights to NRT is very premature.
Does the DOT have any influence over the flights to SIN/MNL? I would assume even if they do, they would not consider a HND slot for these routes over a US city. |
Originally Posted by CPMaverick
(Post 30751698)
Does the DOT have any influence over the flights to SIN/MNL? I would assume even if they do, they would not consider a HND slot for these routes over a US city.
SEA-SIN seems unlikely-ish as long as SQ is in town, unless DL feels like picking a fight, but I’m not even sure they could get fifth freedom rights from South Korea. It’s not out of the question - KE does have authority for LAX-GRU, so there’s a reciprocity argument to be made on that end, at least. Seems likelier than PVG, at least. Maybe DTW-SIN, although that’s pushing the boundaries of route length... |
Originally Posted by CPMaverick
(Post 30751698)
While it might mean yet another shift from NRT to HND, I think saying it will be 'the end' for Delta flights to NRT is very premature.
Does the DOT have any influence over the flights to SIN/MNL? I would assume even if they do, they would not consider a HND slot for these routes over a US city. DL only has four NRT flights they would want shifted to HND exUSA with ATL/SEA/PDX/DTW. They settle for four and shift all flying to HND, that would be a very plausible idea that it could mean the end for NRT flying. |
Good luck for DL getting a HND slot to run HND-MNL or HND-SIN that connects well with their transpacific flights.
I think those intra-Asia routes are toast and folks will connect through ICN on KE. JAL just added a HND-MNL route. My guess is that it's down to PDX vs HNL for the 4th slot. I think a 5th freedom ICN-SIN flight could happen if DL wants to stay in SIN. |
I predict DL makes a play for 6 out of 12 slots:
HND-DTW HND-SEA HND-ATL HND-HNL HND-JFK HND-PDX I'm surprised no additional nighttime slots were generated from the new agreement. While they're not ideal for the mainland, they would - and have - worked perfectly for HNL/KOA. Considering how underutilized nighttime slots are, the two sides should've negotiated an extra slot pair or two. |
Given that DL received two HND slot pairs in the last round versus one each for UA and AA. I doubt that they will still receive more pairs than either one of them in this next round.
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Originally Posted by Fanjet
(Post 30752507)
Given that DL received two HND slot pairs in the last round versus one each for UA and AA. I doubt that they will still receive more pairs than either one of them in this next round.
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Originally Posted by Fanjet
(Post 30752507)
Given that DL received two HND slot pairs in the last round versus one each for UA and AA. I doubt that they will still receive more pairs than either one of them in this next round.
Originally Posted by FireEmblemPride
I predict DL makes a play for 6 out of 12 slots:
HND-DTW HND-SEA HND-ATL HND-HNL HND-JFK HND-PDX |
Originally Posted by readywhenyouare
(Post 30752545)
Agreed. Delta has repeatedly made a mockery of the DOT with HND slots. I'd be cool with it if they didn't get any. Hawaiian Airlines is the only airline that has operates their HND frequencies at 100% service levels. Delta then moved DTW to SEA again with approval from the DOT, and with no objections from other airlines. While you can (rightly) argue that Delta played games with the Seattle authority, it did technically follow the rules the DOT had in place. When AA objected to the DOT, the DOT issued new guidance to Delta, who complied 100% with DOT's ruling, until they gave up the route authority. Delta has since operated daytime slots from MSP and LAX to the letter of the law. So where's the mockery? That they asked and got permission to use smaller aircraft and move the authority? That they complied with DOT rules, including when the DOT (again, rightly) imposed new rules after AA's objection? |
Originally Posted by WidgetTravels
(Post 30752594)
While you can (rightly) argue that Delta played games with the Seattle authority, it did technically follow the rules the DOT had in place.
So where's the mockery? That they asked and got permission to use smaller aircraft and move the authority? That they complied with DOT rules, including when the DOT (again, rightly) imposed new rules after AA's objection? I think it’s fair to say that someone complying with the letter but not the spirit of an allocation of a rare resource is making a mockery of the process, and I think the way the resulting regulatory process played out was a fair resolution. I also think it was a key factor in the DOT denying Delta’s request for slot flexibility in this round of allocations... |
Originally Posted by BenA
(Post 30752783)
I think the mockery is referring to operating the flight exactly eleven times during the entire winter. Technically within the minimums, but the DOT took a dim view of that. They then required Delta to obtain prior DOT approval before canceling more than 2 flights all year (which might have even included mechanical or weather cancellation); that triggered Delta eventually giving up entirely and returning the authority to the DOT. I think it’s fair to say that someone complying with the letter but not the spirit of an allocation of a rare resource is making a mockery of the process, and I think the way the resulting regulatory process played out was a fair resolution. I also think it was a key factor in the DOT denying Delta’s request for slot flexibility in this round of allocations... Also, it's worth remembering that even after Delta's Seattle winter Haneda mess, DOT still gave them MSP-HND over an AA application for DFW. Government agencies don't tend to think in terms of "games" and "punishment" — there are rules and procedures and they evaluate all proposals in accordance with those things. To do any less would invite a lawsuit the government would lose. While avgeeks might enjoy the idea of the government "punishing" a carrier, it just isn't going to happen. |
The better way would be to just toss out the HND restrictions all together, and move to a full open skies for Japan and the US. Then let US carriers and JP carriers fly what they want, and buy the slots they want from other carriers at restricted airports.
DL wants more slots? I'm sure they could buy some slots from one of the smaller carriers who might not be fully utilizing it. Or DL could trade slots at JFK or LAX. AA and UA would still have an advantage, but we could at least get the DOT out this taking months and months to decide what really could be figured out in one week. A day each for DL, UA, AA, HA to present, and a day for public comments. Done. |
Why don't the Japanese authorities allocate the slots directly themselves? Why is is the US DOT involved?
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It's a bilateral negotiation to make slots available for U.S. carriers. U.S. authorities grant them according to evaluations of public good.
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