Feb 21, 2019, 2:36 pm
Last edit by: mnbp
Here are the applications for flight slots at HND (12 slots available to US carriers):
UA (six slots requested)
HND - EWR/ORD/IAD/LAX/IAH/GUM
Application of United Airlines (508 pages)
Answer of United Airlines (154 pages) "United's proposal will make the best use of scarce Haneda slots and provide the greatest public benefits, and No other carrier has demonstrated the benefits of its proposals more than United"
Consolidated reply of United Airlines (148 pages) "Our proposal is best, and the other guys misrepresented the facts."
HA (three slots requested)
HND - HNL (3x daily)
Application of Hawaiian Airlines (118 pages)
Answer of Hawaiian Airlines (111 pages) "Why HA is best, here's what's wrong with DL's request, here's what's wrong with UA's request, and here's what's wrong with AA's request"
Consolidated Reply of Hawaiian Airlines (33 pages) "Our proposal is best, and here's what's wrong with DL, UA and AA's proposals"
AA (four slots requested)
HND - DFW/LAX/DFW/LAS (DFW is AA's first and third preference)
Application of American Airlines (135 pages)
Answer of American Airlines (106 pages) "Only AA adds competition, DL squanders scarce resources, and don't reward UA further"
Consolidated Reply of American Airlines (111 pages) "Here's why DFW, LAX and LAS should be selected, and UA's baseless attacks on AA distract from UA's poor proposal"
DL (six slots requested)
HND - SEA/DTW/ATL/PDX/HNL/HNL (HNL Is DL's fifth and sixth preference)
Application of Delta Air Lines (199 pages)
Answer of Delta Air Lines (90 pages) "DL's proposal maximizes public benefits, DL's proposal should be granted in full before UA, AA, and HA are considered, and DL deserves the slot times it has requested"
Reply of Delta Air Lines (75 pages) "Answers from UA, AA and HA underscore why DL's proposal should be granted in full, and B6's answer is irrelevant to this proceeding"
And the odd filing:
Answer of Jetblue Airways Corporation (6 pages) "If it is important for DOT to grant DL's application for slots at HND, it is equally important to allow JetBlue to enter LHR and AMS"
UA (six slots requested)
HND - EWR/ORD/IAD/LAX/IAH/GUM
Application of United Airlines (508 pages)
Answer of United Airlines (154 pages) "United's proposal will make the best use of scarce Haneda slots and provide the greatest public benefits, and No other carrier has demonstrated the benefits of its proposals more than United"
Consolidated reply of United Airlines (148 pages) "Our proposal is best, and the other guys misrepresented the facts."
HA (three slots requested)
HND - HNL (3x daily)
Application of Hawaiian Airlines (118 pages)
Answer of Hawaiian Airlines (111 pages) "Why HA is best, here's what's wrong with DL's request, here's what's wrong with UA's request, and here's what's wrong with AA's request"
Consolidated Reply of Hawaiian Airlines (33 pages) "Our proposal is best, and here's what's wrong with DL, UA and AA's proposals"
AA (four slots requested)
HND - DFW/LAX/DFW/LAS (DFW is AA's first and third preference)
Application of American Airlines (135 pages)
Answer of American Airlines (106 pages) "Only AA adds competition, DL squanders scarce resources, and don't reward UA further"
Consolidated Reply of American Airlines (111 pages) "Here's why DFW, LAX and LAS should be selected, and UA's baseless attacks on AA distract from UA's poor proposal"
DL (six slots requested)
HND - SEA/DTW/ATL/PDX/HNL/HNL (HNL Is DL's fifth and sixth preference)
Application of Delta Air Lines (199 pages)
Answer of Delta Air Lines (90 pages) "DL's proposal maximizes public benefits, DL's proposal should be granted in full before UA, AA, and HA are considered, and DL deserves the slot times it has requested"
Reply of Delta Air Lines (75 pages) "Answers from UA, AA and HA underscore why DL's proposal should be granted in full, and B6's answer is irrelevant to this proceeding"
And the odd filing:
Answer of Jetblue Airways Corporation (6 pages) "If it is important for DOT to grant DL's application for slots at HND, it is equally important to allow JetBlue to enter LHR and AMS"
DOT starts new proceeding for added HND slots
Feb 28, 2019, 1:18 am
#106
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Ah, that explains the "Down With Narita" sign (which for some reason I had never bothered to Google until now either -- there's even an old FT thread)
Feb 28, 2019, 4:01 am
#107
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AFAIK, the Japanese government has not said that US carriers can only operate flights to/from the US at HND. The problem for a hypothetical SIN/MNL route is that the US DOT controls all of the HND slots allocated to US carriers, and DOT will only approve specific routes for which the carriers can demonstrate a US public interest. That's simply not going to happen with SIN/MNL as long as there are competing proposals for routes to the US.
I understand they slot control HND. I also understand that routes from the US to/from HND are even more restricted for US carriers. However routes from SIN wouldn't be a route to/from the US. It possibly falls under whatever agreement Singapore and Japan have, not the US and Japan. Do you know that it is the US/JAPAN agreement that governs SIN flights, or does it fall under whatever agreement Singapore and Japan have.
Feb 28, 2019, 9:01 am
#108
Join Date: Feb 2019
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Yea, but now that HND is opening up, more airlines are going to start pulling out of NRT in favor of HND. So, despite the protesting to open NRT, it’s brought a huge number of jobs to the region, and if HND starts expanding and NRT starts decreasing in capacity, I’m sure they will start protesting again
Feb 28, 2019, 9:12 am
#109
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It's hard to know whether DL would lose to SQ. For sure, SQ has a better product but they are more expensive and DL has better connections to other US cities from SEA than SQ does. We have looked at the option of taking the new SQ nonstop to SEA for my SIN to MSP trips, and while it is reasonably priced on the SIN to SEA flight, the connection from SEA to MSP on a Star Alliance partner is a problem. I'm waiting to see what happens to NRT flights once the DOT makes their decision, but I'm not overly optimistic that DL will keep SIN. Such a shame. Those flights are always full, but I'm not interested in routing via ICN. DL is adding a MSP to ICN non-stop, but if you want a decent connection time in ICN, they've priced those flights about 30% higher than routing through other US gateways, which means having two stops instead of one. Most of the options they show on delta.com require a 10 hour 40 minute layover in ICN. No thanks.
Feb 28, 2019, 10:08 am
#110
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It's hard to know whether DL would lose to SQ. For sure, SQ has a better product but they are more expensive and DL has better connections to other US cities from SEA than SQ does. We have looked at the option of taking the new SQ nonstop to SEA for my SIN to MSP trips, and while it is reasonably priced on the SIN to SEA flight, the connection from SEA to MSP on a Star Alliance partner is a problem. I'm waiting to see what happens to NRT flights once the DOT makes their decision, but I'm not overly optimistic that DL will keep SIN. Such a shame. Those flights are always full, but I'm not interested in routing via ICN. DL is adding a MSP to ICN non-stop, but if you want a decent connection time in ICN, they've priced those flights about 30% higher than routing through other US gateways, which means having two stops instead of one. Most of the options they show on delta.com require a 10 hour 40 minute layover in ICN. No thanks.
Feb 28, 2019, 10:17 am
#111
Join Date: Feb 2019
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It's hard to know whether DL would lose to SQ. For sure, SQ has a better product but they are more expensive and DL has better connections to other US cities from SEA than SQ does. We have looked at the option of taking the new SQ nonstop to SEA for my SIN to MSP trips, and while it is reasonably priced on the SIN to SEA flight, the connection from SEA to MSP on a Star Alliance partner is a problem. I'm waiting to see what happens to NRT flights once the DOT makes their decision, but I'm not overly optimistic that DL will keep SIN. Such a shame. Those flights are always full, but I'm not interested in routing via ICN. DL is adding a MSP to ICN non-stop, but if you want a decent connection time in ICN, they've priced those flights about 30% higher than routing through other US gateways, which means having two stops instead of one. Most of the options they show on delta.com require a 10 hour 40 minute layover in ICN. No thanks.
Feb 28, 2019, 10:58 am
#113
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Book as separate tickets? MSP-XXX-SEA on UA + SEA-SIN on SQ may price cheaper than MSP-XXX-SEA-SIN on UA/SQ (or even consider an AS or DL nonstop to SEA, though I would leave plenty of time to support the "connection" to SQ in this case).
Last edited by ATOBTTR; Feb 28, 2019 at 11:27 am Reason: Fix Quote Boxes
Feb 28, 2019, 11:02 am
#114
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The CEO of the NRT airport authority says that (1) he expects NRT to continue to serve connecting traffic between North America and Asia despite the loss of several US routes to HND, and (2) he is hoping that open skies liberalization between Japan and China will lead to more NRT-China routes. (Japanese link)
Feb 28, 2019, 9:12 pm
#116
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Mar 2, 2019, 2:40 pm
#118
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Keep in mind - a big difference between NRT vs HND is that NRT is / was a major connecting hub, while HND is essentially O/D only. DL does offer the TIAT (airport) lounge for D1 passengers (only). Not sure even a maximum award of six additional flights/day would be enough to justify a DL SkyClub.
Mar 2, 2019, 3:02 pm
#119
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Mar 2, 2019, 3:06 pm
#120
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SQ is one of AS's partners. I'm not sure on the extent of the partnership but if SQ is looking to funnel passengers to AS's destinations in AS via the partnership, I would argue that SQ has better connections in SEA than DL does, except for perhaps DL's primary hubs that AS only serves 1-2x daily. This is not to suggest that DL has poor connections out of SEA, but AS has the better domestic network out of SEA to feed from/to.
Book as separate tickets? MSP-XXX-SEA on UA + SEA-SIN on SQ may price cheaper than MSP-XXX-SEA-SIN on UA/SQ (or even consider an AS or DL nonstop to SEA, though I would leave plenty of time to support the "connection" to SQ in this case).
Book as separate tickets? MSP-XXX-SEA on UA + SEA-SIN on SQ may price cheaper than MSP-XXX-SEA-SIN on UA/SQ (or even consider an AS or DL nonstop to SEA, though I would leave plenty of time to support the "connection" to SQ in this case).
Alaska really needs intra-East Coast or intra-East of the Mississippi service.