Air France / KLM O paid business class fare earning with Delta (Consolidated Thread)
#61
Join Date: Dec 2009
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 262
I have not found 'O' booking class on any routes that with USA, Canada or Mexico as origin or destination (including US to Asia via AMS). But 'O' fares are on Europe-Asia,-Africa,-South America and even -Caribbean. At first I suspected it was inadvertent that DL left 'O' off the earnings chart, but given how specifically KLM excluded 'O' to the North America market, I'm starting to suspect it isn't just an oversight. Alternatively, perhaps the explanation above from rucksack on the fare realignment is correct (I'm not familiar with that process), and the easiest way to implement this was just to apply to all flights to/from North America. Flights like YYZ-AMS and JFK-NRT (via AMS) are not available as DL marketed flights, yet there are no 'O' fares on them.
#62
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Berlin, Germany
Programs: DL DM/2MM, UA PE, HH Gold
Posts: 1,080
I have not found 'O' booking class on any routes that with USA, Canada or Mexico as origin or destination (including US to Asia via AMS). But 'O' fares are on Europe-Asia,-Africa,-South America and even -Caribbean. At first I suspected it was inadvertent that DL left 'O' off the earnings chart, but given how specifically KLM excluded 'O' to the North America market, I'm starting to suspect it isn't just an oversight. Alternatively, perhaps the explanation above from rucksack on the fare realignment is correct (I'm not familiar with that process), and the easiest way to implement this was just to apply to all flights to/from North America. Flights like YYZ-AMS and JFK-NRT (via AMS) are not available as DL marketed flights, yet there are no 'O' fares on them.
#63
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 26,951
I don't think that's what this is.
Delta underwent a fare realignment with KL and AF a number of years ago so that fare classes were consistent across the airlines. It seems like KL has gone a bit rogue with their use of the 'O' booking classes here and Delta's published earning chart simply doesn't yet reflect this change. If I had to guess, the fare realignment covered all flights as a matter of convenience, but technically only covered codeshare flights (which AMS-CUR is not), giving KL latitude to make this change.
Delta underwent a fare realignment with KL and AF a number of years ago so that fare classes were consistent across the airlines. It seems like KL has gone a bit rogue with their use of the 'O' booking classes here and Delta's published earning chart simply doesn't yet reflect this change. If I had to guess, the fare realignment covered all flights as a matter of convenience, but technically only covered codeshare flights (which AMS-CUR is not), giving KL latitude to make this change.
#64
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Washington, DC, Chapel Hill, NC (RDU)
Programs: DL Plat (won't hit DM again) 2MM (2.5), HH Gold, PC Gold, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 5,624
And KL does make it difficult to ever see the class of service if booked direct through them. See this summary of an upcoming trip from the KL www site. This is for the LAX-BKK $~2100 deal. I purchased through Chase Rewards and have a receipt that shows Z class for all 4 legs. And I used whatsapp to send the PNR to KL and confirm that all legs are in Z -- within the 24 hour cancel w/o penalty period.
I just requested a copy of the e-ticket from the KL www site to be emailed. Maybe the fare class will appear on that. But it doesn't. Ticket number, non-refund language, but no booking codes.
I get excluding ultra cheap fares from earnings, but just think it should be up-front knowledge.
I just requested a copy of the e-ticket from the KL www site to be emailed. Maybe the fare class will appear on that. But it doesn't. Ticket number, non-refund language, but no booking codes.
I get excluding ultra cheap fares from earnings, but just think it should be up-front knowledge.
Last edited by mot29; Feb 28, 2019 at 3:11 pm
#65
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,876
As for why the O fares in the first place, its probably a reaction to competitors fares. I dont know how fares are regulated ex-EU, but if its like it is in the US, the additional fare class may be a move to give more flexibility in pricing and avoid having to refile Z fares.
#66
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 26,951
Its certainly possible, but I just dont view this as a sinister move by KL/AF to avoid paying out miles. After all, these low O fares are eligible to earn miles through FlyingBlue.
As for why the O fares in the first place, its probably a reaction to competitors fares. I dont know how fares are regulated ex-EU, but if its like it is in the US, the additional fare class may be a move to give more flexibility in pricing and avoid having to refile Z fares.
#67
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Trident Plat, DL Diamond, AI Maharajah
Posts: 29,598
#68
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Florida, USA
Posts: 2,978
And KL does make it difficult to ever see the class of service if booked direct through them. See this summary of an upcoming trip from the KL www site. This is for the LAX-BKK $~2100 deal. I purchased through Chase Rewards and have a receipt that shows Z class for all 4 legs. And I used whatsapp to send the PNR to KL and confirm that all legs are in Z -- within the 24 hour cancel w/o penalty period.
I just requested a copy of the e-ticket from the KL www site to be emailed. Maybe the fare class will appear on that. But it doesn't. Ticket number, non-refund language, but no booking codes.
I get excluding ultra cheap fares from earnings, but just think it should be up-front knowledge.
I just requested a copy of the e-ticket from the KL www site to be emailed. Maybe the fare class will appear on that. But it doesn't. Ticket number, non-refund language, but no booking codes.
I get excluding ultra cheap fares from earnings, but just think it should be up-front knowledge.
#69
Join Date: Jun 2015
Programs: Delta GM; FB Plat; HHonors Diamond; Hertz PC; National EE
Posts: 189
As for why the ‘O’ fares in the first place, it’s probably a reaction to competitors fares. I don’t know how fares are regulated ex-EU, but if it’s like it is in the US, the additional fare class may be a move to give more flexibility in pricing and avoid having to refile Z fares.
Now, for AMS-CUR:
O (O3LSNL) is 75 day advance, non-refundable and non-changeabale. combineability only with Z - base fare EUR 671 per sector
Z (ZSFNL) is 7 day advance, non refundable and 300 euro change fee, combineable with all fares. - base fare EUR 1211 per sector
I (IFFNL) is 5 day advance, refundable and changeable (free), combineable with all fares - base fare 1464 per sector
D (DFFNL) is unrestricted, refundable and changeable (free), combineable with all fares - base fare EUR 1839 per sector
C (CFFNL) is unrestricted, refundable and changeable (free), combineable with all fares - base fare EUR 2589 per sector
J (JFFNL) is almost equivalent to C - base fare EUR 3836 per sector
It all just shifted one class down. Z used to be the 75 day advance reservations fare. The weird thing is the combineability rule for O. If you do an open-jaw with an O fare, the other segment has to be in Z. Might this be an unintentional copy-paste error? Also, the published fares for D, J and C are (almost) equivalent, so the only reason for two different classes here would be to differentiate in price based on inventory, which does not seem a logical thing to do with fully flexible and refundable fares.
#70
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Washington, DC, Chapel Hill, NC (RDU)
Programs: DL Plat (won't hit DM again) 2MM (2.5), HH Gold, PC Gold, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 5,624
Try entering your ticket number at http://www.saudiairlines.com
Sort of like booking seats on MU using the Garuda www site.
#72
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Trident Plat, DL Diamond, AI Maharajah
Posts: 29,598
#73
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: PRG, DRS, VIE
Programs: Marriott Titanium, BA Gold, A3 Gold
Posts: 937
AKFL O paid business class fare earning with Delta
Hello - I have noticed there is common agreement that paid business AFKL O class fares do not earn anything with Delta. Is this correct?
I
I