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revenue business fare ticketed in 'o' class....

revenue business fare ticketed in 'o' class....

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Old Feb 28, 19, 7:27 am
  #61  
 
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I have not found 'O' booking class on any routes that with USA, Canada or Mexico as origin or destination (including US to Asia via AMS). But 'O' fares are on Europe-Asia,-Africa,-South America and even -Caribbean. At first I suspected it was inadvertent that DL left 'O' off the earnings chart, but given how specifically KLM excluded 'O' to the North America market, I'm starting to suspect it isn't just an oversight. Alternatively, perhaps the explanation above from rucksack on the fare realignment is correct (I'm not familiar with that process), and the easiest way to implement this was just to apply to all flights to/from North America. Flights like YYZ-AMS and JFK-NRT (via AMS) are not available as DL marketed flights, yet there are no 'O' fares on them.
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Old Feb 28, 19, 10:55 am
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Originally Posted by ajggiant View Post
I have not found 'O' booking class on any routes that with USA, Canada or Mexico as origin or destination (including US to Asia via AMS). But 'O' fares are on Europe-Asia,-Africa,-South America and even -Caribbean. At first I suspected it was inadvertent that DL left 'O' off the earnings chart, but given how specifically KLM excluded 'O' to the North America market, I'm starting to suspect it isn't just an oversight. Alternatively, perhaps the explanation above from rucksack on the fare realignment is correct (I'm not familiar with that process), and the easiest way to implement this was just to apply to all flights to/from North America. Flights like YYZ-AMS and JFK-NRT (via AMS) are not available as DL marketed flights, yet there are no 'O' fares on them.
That's correct as these "O" fares a filed by either KL or AF but NOT the TATL joint venture - if they would file an "O" fare to the US you would be able to buy it on DL.com and then DL would have to state a messeage like "no mileage/MQM/MQD accrual" which they certainly would like to avoid.
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Old Feb 28, 19, 2:11 pm
  #63  
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Originally Posted by rucksack View Post
I don't think that's what this is.

Delta underwent a fare realignment with KL and AF a number of years ago so that fare classes were consistent across the airlines. It seems like KL has gone a bit rogue with their use of the 'O' booking classes here and Delta's published earning chart simply doesn't yet reflect this change. If I had to guess, the fare realignment covered all flights as a matter of convenience, but technically only covered codeshare flights (which AMS-CUR is not), giving KL latitude to make this change.
This issue seems to be coming up more and more on routes to/ from Asia in (normally) really cheap business class. If it was just AF/KL it would be one thing. However other airlines are doing this also.
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Old Feb 28, 19, 2:56 pm
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And KL does make it difficult to ever see the class of service if booked direct through them. See this summary of an upcoming trip from the KL www site. This is for the LAX-BKK $~2100 deal. I purchased through Chase Rewards and have a receipt that shows Z class for all 4 legs. And I used whatsapp to send the PNR to KL and confirm that all legs are in Z -- within the 24 hour cancel w/o penalty period.
I just requested a copy of the e-ticket from the KL www site to be emailed. Maybe the fare class will appear on that. But it doesn't. Ticket number, non-refund language, but no booking codes.
I get excluding ultra cheap fares from earnings, but just think it should be up-front knowledge.


Last edited by mot29; Feb 28, 19 at 3:11 pm
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Old Feb 28, 19, 11:41 pm
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
This issue seems to be coming up more and more on routes to/ from Asia in (normally) really cheap business class. If it was just AF/KL it would be one thing. However other airlines are doing this also.
Itís certainly possible, but I just donít view this as a sinister move by KL/AF to avoid paying out miles. After all, these low ĎOí fares are eligible to earn miles through FlyingBlue.

As for why the ĎOí fares in the first place, itís probably a reaction to competitors fares. I donít know how fares are regulated ex-EU, but if itís like it is in the US, the additional fare class may be a move to give more flexibility in pricing and avoid having to refile Z fares.
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Old Mar 1, 19, 12:05 am
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Originally Posted by rucksack View Post


Itís certainly possible, but I just donít view this as a sinister move by KL/AF to avoid paying out miles. After all, these low ĎOí fares are eligible to earn miles through FlyingBlue.

As for why the ĎOí fares in the first place, itís probably a reaction to competitors fares. I donít know how fares are regulated ex-EU, but if itís like it is in the US, the additional fare class may be a move to give more flexibility in pricing and avoid having to refile Z fares.
This is just like the *A "P" fares. They earn zero in multiple programs despite being business class. My main point being avoiding KL does not prevent the issue from coming up.
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Old Mar 1, 19, 4:03 am
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Originally Posted by Keyser View Post
extended by another 2 days so hopefully it will come to an end on the 28th of february....
now extended till the 14th of march....i don't think this is coming to an end anytime soon....the 'o' class fare seems here to stay....
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Old Mar 1, 19, 12:43 pm
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Originally Posted by mot29 View Post
And KL does make it difficult to ever see the class of service if booked direct through them. See this summary of an upcoming trip from the KL www site. This is for the LAX-BKK $~2100 deal. I purchased through Chase Rewards and have a receipt that shows Z class for all 4 legs. And I used whatsapp to send the PNR to KL and confirm that all legs are in Z -- within the 24 hour cancel w/o penalty period.
I just requested a copy of the e-ticket from the KL www site to be emailed. Maybe the fare class will appear on that. But it doesn't. Ticket number, non-refund language, but no booking codes.
I get excluding ultra cheap fares from earnings, but just think it should be up-front knowledge.
Try entering your ticket number at http://www.saudiairlines.com
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Old Mar 1, 19, 1:41 pm
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Originally Posted by rucksack View Post
As for why the ‘O’ fares in the first place, it’s probably a reaction to competitors fares. I don’t know how fares are regulated ex-EU, but if it’s like it is in the US, the additional fare class may be a move to give more flexibility in pricing and avoid having to refile Z fares.
Nope, it has just replaced Z. A return trip AMS to one of the carribean islands, restricted and advance sale would be Z last year, now it's O for the same type of fare with similar rules.

Now, for AMS-CUR:

O (O3LSNL) is 75 day advance, non-refundable and non-changeabale. combineability only with Z - base fare EUR 671 per sector
Z (ZSFNL) is 7 day advance, non refundable and 300 euro change fee, combineable with all fares. - base fare EUR 1211 per sector
I (IFFNL) is 5 day advance, refundable and changeable (free), combineable with all fares - base fare 1464 per sector
D (DFFNL) is unrestricted, refundable and changeable (free), combineable with all fares - base fare EUR 1839 per sector
C (CFFNL) is unrestricted, refundable and changeable (free), combineable with all fares - base fare EUR 2589 per sector
J (JFFNL) is almost equivalent to C - base fare EUR 3836 per sector

It all just shifted one class down. Z used to be the 75 day advance reservations fare. The weird thing is the combineability rule for O. If you do an open-jaw with an O fare, the other segment has to be in Z. Might this be an unintentional copy-paste error? Also, the published fares for D, J and C are (almost) equivalent, so the only reason for two different classes here would be to differentiate in price based on inventory, which does not seem a logical thing to do with fully flexible and refundable fares.
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Old Mar 1, 19, 2:46 pm
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Originally Posted by michael_v View Post
Try entering your ticket number at http://www.saudiairlines.com
Thanks, great find. Works with the KL PNR as well.
Sort of like booking seats on MU using the Garuda www site.
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Old Mar 20, 19, 1:04 am
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& just like that, both the 'o' & 'z' fares are gone for my date & route....
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Old Mar 20, 19, 11:46 am
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Originally Posted by Keyser View Post
& just like that, both the 'o' & 'z' fares are gone for my date & route....
both the 'o' & 'z' fares are back again....
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Old Jul 1, 19, 1:27 pm
  #73  
 
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Just an update on this issue. While I have booked a future KL flight mixed fare (economy on the outbound, business/Z on the inboud) to avoid any discussion, I just noticed that the partner earning sheet on delta.com has been modified. It now lists "O" as an official earning class for Air France marketed flights. But not yet for KLM marketed flights. So it seems there is progress. It is just 100% MQM's and no class bonus for miles either. But heck, it's better than earning nothing.

As I have a 3+ hour schedule change on that ticket that I booked in V and Z combined and the O/O fare is still available, I could rebook free of charge - both legs in business/O is actually a couple of euro's cheaper than the V/Z combination fare that I am holding right now. So I'm going to try to contact Delta again and inquire about that change for Air France O class and if that is going to be the case for KLM as well.
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Old Jul 2, 19, 6:24 am
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Originally Posted by roelb View Post
Just an update on this issue. While I have booked a future KL flight mixed fare (economy on the outbound, business/Z on the inboud) to avoid any discussion, I just noticed that the partner earning sheet on delta.com has been modified. It now lists "O" as an official earning class for Air France marketed flights. But not yet for KLM marketed flights. So it seems there is progress. It is just 100% MQM's and no class bonus for miles either. But heck, it's better than earning nothing.

As I have a 3+ hour schedule change on that ticket that I booked in V and Z combined and the O/O fare is still available, I could rebook free of charge - both legs in business/O is actually a couple of euro's cheaper than the V/Z combination fare that I am holding right now. So I'm going to try to contact Delta again and inquire about that change for Air France O class and if that is going to be the case for KLM as well.
Good find! While it's kind of sh*tty that MQM earning is only 100% rather than 150%, this is still a heckuva lot better than before.

Wonder why they've updated the AF chart but not the KL chart?

EDIT: Looks like although the KL chart hasn't been updated, the earning itself has been changed. You can buy India-Europe flights under AF and KL flight numbers on Delta.com. I just made dummy bookings for DEL-CDG-LHR and DEL-AMS-LHR, both in O class, and while a month or two ago the "MQMs/SkyMiles earned" on the checkout page showed 0 miles, it now reflects 100% earning for both KL and AF.

I can finally book O fares to Asia!

Last edited by taxicabnumber; Jul 2, 19 at 6:30 am
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Old Jul 4, 19, 8:37 pm
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good news but too late for me as i booked a higher fare for my flight last month....but for future reference, its great that 'o' is an earning class now....
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