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UA is launching a 50-seater with 10F, 20Y+, 20Y; Will DL follow?

UA is launching a 50-seater with 10F, 20Y+, 20Y; Will DL follow?

Old Feb 6, 19, 7:03 am
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UA is launching a 50-seater with 10F, 20Y+, 20Y; Will DL follow?

This is an interesting innovation from the folks at United:


United's new 50-seater

Because the airline can't get any more 70/76 seaters under its pilot contract, it's making some of its 50-seaters more premium. Delta has more large RJs, so maybe they don't need it, but it would sure be nice to see a 50-seat CRJ-700 (which is what this is) replace some of those crappy CRJ-200s.

If I remember right, United was the first carrier to put F on regional planes and now they're everywhere. I wonder if this might be the same sort of thing.

More details: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ry-travel-push
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Old Feb 6, 19, 7:08 am
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Originally Posted by jrkmsp View Post
This is an interesting innovation from the folks at United:


United's new 50-seater

Because the airline can't get any more 70/76 seaters under its pilot contract, it's making some of its 50-seaters more premium. Delta has more large RJs, so maybe they don't need it, but it would sure be nice to see a 50-seat CRJ-700 (which is what this is) replace some of those crappy CRJ-200s.

If I remember right, United was the first carrier to put F on regional planes and now they're everywhere. I wonder if this might be the same sort of thing.

More details: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ry-travel-push
I like the self service drinks/snacks in F (some might argue that it should not be self service, but i would prefer to get up myself and get a drink or snack when i would like one)
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Old Feb 6, 19, 7:10 am
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Originally Posted by vincentharris View Post
I like the self service drinks/snacks in F (some might argue that it should not be self service, but i would prefer to get up myself and get a drink or snack when i would like one)
Agreed. I imagine it's for practical purposes with only 50 seats, still just one FA on the plane.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 7:19 am
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I like the self serve, but only if I’m on the single seat seat. I don’t want to bother the aisle w getting up and down, I surely don’t want to be bothered by someone getting up and down.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 7:31 am
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Delta = never happen. They are looking to get rid of the 50 seaters....not buy new ones modified from the CRJ700.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 7:32 am
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No, Delta will not follow. Delta showed a graphic - with the 12/2017 Investor Day presentation - that its 2023 target for CR2s was about 50 aircraft. Those will be used on airport pairs that don't have demand to support a 2-class RJ nor mainline 717 or A220. UA (and AA too, but especially UA) relies way more heavily on E145/CR2s than does Delta. Apparently UA thinks this high-cost per seat CR-550 is a better solution than mainline (and shuffling 2-class RJs down into present single-class routes). Look at operating metrics - on-time, cancellations, baggage handling - and ask if you want more UA GoJet and Mesa or Delta mainline.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 7:37 am
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UA likes to promise things - Polaris - with a very slow rollout. Time will tell.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 7:52 am
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
No, Delta will not follow. Delta showed a graphic - with the 12/2017 Investor Day presentation - that its 2023 target for CR2s was about 50 aircraft. Those will be used on airport pairs that don't have demand to support a 2-class RJ nor mainline 717 or A220. UA (and AA too, but especially UA) relies way more heavily on E145/CR2s than does Delta. Apparently UA thinks this high-cost per seat CR-550 is a better solution than mainline (and shuffling 2-class RJs down into present single-class routes). Look at operating metrics - on-time, cancellations, baggage handling - and ask if you want more UA GoJet and Mesa or Delta mainline.
UA is maxed out on larger (more than 50 seat) regional jets. This is a way to work around the cap and it's not half bad.

Delta has limits as well:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...-regio-446780/

Delta is maxed out on 76 seaters so they are going with 70 seats in the new CRJ-900s.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/delt...osphere-cabin/

They are basically doing a similar thing to UA, except UA is putting 50 seats into a 70 seat aircraft and Delta is putting 70 seats into a 90 seat aircraft.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-crj900-atmosphere/

Delta is also putting 70 seats into their new E-175s again due to scope.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/...e-a-win-w.aspx
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Old Feb 6, 19, 7:56 am
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I love the 20 - 20 - 10 ratio, basically meaning that every elite in Y will get at least Y+ (unless a non-status person books Y+/F).
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Old Feb 6, 19, 8:09 am
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Originally Posted by DiverDave View Post
UA is maxed out on larger (more than 50 seat) regional jets. This is a way to work around the cap and it's not half bad.
I understand that both DL and UA are scoped out on 70 and 76-seat jets.

Delta's solution is mainline A220s (following the 91 717s). UA's solution is 70-seat jets with 50 seats. UA is still going to have a lot of single-class 50-seats jets - the agreement with GoJet covers only fifty aircraft. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300790427.html

I know which solution I like better.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 8:26 am
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I really don't like the idea of self serve snacks & drinks in F on a short haul flight. IMO, it's best to have most pax remain seated on short hops and it's nice to have an FA serve.

Like, all I want is to be on a 6am flight, have fallen asleep for a short nap after take off and to have the guy in the window seat wake me up to that he can go his snacks.

On international long haul, with all seats having aisle access, it's great to have a snack and beverage station, especially because you need to get up and stretch anyways.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 8:26 am
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
No, Delta will not follow. Delta showed a graphic - with the 12/2017 Investor Day presentation - that its 2023 target for CR2s was about 50 aircraft. Those will be used on airport pairs that don't have demand to support a 2-class RJ nor mainline 717 or A220. UA (and AA too, but especially UA) relies way more heavily on E145/CR2s than does Delta. Apparently UA thinks this high-cost per seat CR-550 is a better solution than mainline (and shuffling 2-class RJs down into present single-class routes). Look at operating metrics - on-time, cancellations, baggage handling - and ask if you want more UA GoJet and Mesa or Delta mainline.
If I were a UA elite, I'd be searching these out. The oddities of regional scope have gotten to the point where UA/AA regional is preferable to their Domestic mainline product when it comes to elite upgrades and general legroom/comfort. Delta less so, but only because they haven't cut F seats or Y pitch to as great a degree, and are generally investing in the Mainline product with nose to tail IFE & Power.

Also, based on my limited experience with UA's F buy-up offering, my guess is they'll get a fair few takers and that marginal revenue will help make up the gap (along being able to sell premium Int'l connections where they couldn't before). As far as CASM, the CR7 engine is a much more efficient version of the CF34 as compared to the CR2, plus they're only putting on FA on the CRJ-550.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 8:27 am
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This will not change DL's strategy. They are all-in with the A220's.

The most interesting aspect for me is using floor space for carry-on storage closets. Kind of like boarding the rental car shuttle when boarding the plane. Will be interesting to see how well that works out.

The A220 is much more versatile. It doesn't have to just run between two premium-heavy markets on weekdays which is really the tiny niche for this UA product.

Still, I like the innovation and I hope it works out. Anything that offers less density and better service is worth trying.

DL was the first to fully complete their merger and has pulled away from UA and AA considerably in the aftermath. UA has now emerged and is innovating as a fully integrated carrier after their merger. If anything, this will distance UA further from AA who was the last to merge and will be the last to innovate.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 8:39 am
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Originally Posted by jrkmsp View Post
This is an interesting innovation from the folks at United:


United's new 50-seater
Interesting to see the luggage bins. I wonder how efficient these will be. I assume regular overhead bins would also be available.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 8:47 am
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It looks to me like UA is going to try what is essentailly a premium shuttle service. Smaller aircraft will enable greater frequency on the route.

BTW, I'm not impressed by the "more legroom in FC and Y+ than any other 50 seat aircraft in our fleet.

I wonder whether the self serve will include alcohol and hot beverages, or how often it won't work due to turbulence (I think UA knows this word, but I hesitate to say it in the DL forum). It also sounds like Y+ and Y won't even be served water. The self serve reminds me of the period when TWA lunchtime transcons had a cold fried chicken buffet set up in the galley.

The bag spaces will presumably avoid having to offer valet checking service.

It's not on the posted floor plan, but I sure hope this aircraft has at least one lavatory.
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