3Cforme

Mods got a request to merge this into a recent thread. Done.

3Cforme - Delta Forum Moderator

davidlhanson

vincentharris

I cant believe this thread is still going. Can we make a wiki for it? (see below for all you need)

- X amount of people dont care
- X amount DO care because Y (y being they pay more, its a status symbol, somebody might splash some pee on the seat, etc.)
- Sometimes FAs will say dont use them but usually they dont

I think I summed up all 13 pages of this thread pretty well.

vincentharris

It was probably me

A lot of the times if the line is busy or the pilots are using the lav and its blocked I will just go to the back.

FBplatinum

On INTL flight, J/F PAX paid much more for a "higher experience", for this reason I disagree Y PAX use J/F lav.
But...
On short flights, I have NO problem at condition they wait in Y the J/F lav come free (not bother J PAX (waiting in line (in J/F) or have J/F PAX waiting they use the lav)).

ATOBTTR

Where is the written policy for DL? Can you provide it? On AA, the policy is actually the opposite, except on int'l flights to the US, where for security reasons and directed by TSA/DOT, passengers must use the lavatory in their ticketed cabin (I don't know what the difference on flights to the US versus from the US is security wise but that's probably for a different discussion). On domestic flights within the US and int'l flights outbound from the US, AA policy says passengers can use the lavatory in any cabin:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/aa-eco......-bathrooms/

Except it's not the same. Ratios are completely different on the ground and it's clear the bathrooms in the SC are for dedicated use of a SkyClub and there (usually) ample facilities throughout a terminal, and there are enough available toilets that a few people taking an excessively long in one means there are still plenty of other toilets where people are rotating through quickly. On a plane, facilities are limited, especially on narrowbodies. For example, on DL's 737-800, with 160 seats (16 F and 144 C+/Y seats), restricting the forward lav to only FC passengers leaves a pax to lav ratio in Y/C+ of 72:1 - and for many of those 144 pax, their lav is going to be blocked for a significant portion of the flight.

Also, the way I see it, it's not a "dedicated lav for FC", it's a lavatory that one has to simply walk past/through the FC cabin to get to, just like one has to pass through the FC cabin on most narrowbodies when boarding. I would agree that passengers shouldn't be waiting in the FC cabin - they should either wait in the galley up by the lav or wait behind the curtain in Y/C+ until the lavatory is available. But if the forward lav is available, there's no reason to deny someone from using it and I feel that way whether I'm in Y or F. I'd rather someone go as quickly as possible and then be able to return to their seat as quickly as possible, especially as being up and unbelted longer than necessary further increases one's risk to being unbelted should the aircraft hit turbulence unexpectedly.

OroroT

Yes, put me down for "it bothers me" too. For all the reasons said above. But I do agree that its ok to use the dunny in front when the cart is blocking the aisle. I'm all for the electrified moat or curtain, or whatever was mentioned above (ref. Seinfeld).

DCP2016

Thank you, this is probably the only post that makes sense out of the last few posts (ATOBTTR's aside).

SOBE ER DOC

Actually DL FAs routinely announce in-flight that FAA policy requires you use the lavatory in your ticketed cabin. I'm sorry that you don't recall that and require a "written" policy as proof of something. As for the lavatory ratios, to be blunt, that is no my problem. If I am paying for a premium experience which include access to a less frequently used lavatory then that is what I expect. If people in the back do not like the lines to use the lavatory then I suggest they consider purchasing a ticket in F so they can access the lavatory in the cabin dedicated to them. Airline travel is stressful enough, it doesn't need to be made wore by people who think they are entitled to just do whatever they want regardless of how it impacts others.

My with respect my analogy about the plane and the SC it is the same. In both instances I am purchasing or have been granted access to a premium service that includes specific amenities. By your argument, since there are not ample showers in the terminal to accommodate pax who would like one after a long flight they should be entitled to use the ones in the SC because of the limited supply in the terminal.

I am sorry but the race to bottom in airline pricing brought this on. Pax don't want to pay for anything yet expect everything. Where it's overstuffing a bag and trying to force it to fit in the overhead, choosing a bare bones ticket and then griping about not being able to with with the traveling companions or lamenting about how their are not enough lavatories in coach and therefore they are entitled to use the one in F, it feels like it's always about not accepting personal responsibility and ownership for the decisions one has made for themselves.

ATOBTTR

Not in my experience. Been a while since I've heard the "FAA policy requires you to use the lav in your cabin" on a DL flight. Maybe our experiences are different and maybe you're hearing it on your flights. But I'm not.

I won't apologize for expecting a policy to be written somewhere versus allowing it to be made up, especially when I've seen and experienced FAs and other employees making up policy on the spot, especially since AA's policy, which I admit is not DL, is different from the "policy" you've tried to state is policy. So if you want to quote DL policy as "policy" or even as a marketed benefit, provide proof of it. Otherwise the only thing you're giving me is what you think the policy is. The only policy one can point to is "crew member instructions" and if an FA does say "go use the lav in your cabin", I would say it's best to not argue with the FA so as to not have the police waiting for you when you land, and then perhaps reach out to the airline for clarification later, but otherwise, there is no policy.

And for the Y pax who needs to relieve themselves, your being bothered by it isn't their problem. They care more about the need to relieve themselves than they do about your preferences or how much you may have paid for a ticket.

Ironically your point about air travel being stressful enough only defeats your argument - the Y pax can make the same argument - that air travel is stressful enough, and they're going to go when and where they need to go.

No it isn't. People don't "need" to shower during the course of air travel in most cases - they can take care of that at the hotel or home prior to leaving or after arriving and most people probably don't shower during the course of air travel. It is not a "necessity" by any stretch, even if a preference either for the individual or for other travelers. It's also not the same as food because passengers can prepare ahead of time, either bringing food with them from home, buying food in the terminal before boarding, or buying on board options (or getting complimentary meals). None of these are like needing to relieve themselves. However, people need to relieve themselves and on flights (especially longer ones) most passengers will have to get up at some point to go.

Agreed fully - Int'l widebodies tend to have more acceptable Pax to lav ratios for those in Y - ie. these planes are designed with multiple-cabins in mind and the lavs are spaced accordingly throughout the aircraft in many cases. Not all narrowbodies which is also partially just based on aircraft design economics, and by expecting pax to utilize only the lav in their cabin, it means on narrowbodies with a small F cabin and a large Y cabin, the lavs in Y become over utilized while forward lavs become under-utilized.

I think a good rule of thumb would be a passenger shouldn't pass one lav and then go through another cabin to go to another lav (not a set-in-stone rule but just a pretty good concept in most circumstances I think) . If an aircraft has lavs at forward part of the Y cabin, I would say in most cases that a passenger should not go through another cabin to get to a lav. But if there's no mid-cabin lav then I think it's reasonable for Y pax to go use the forward lav. For example, on a 757-200 with D1 (or a 757-300 with 2 lavs behind F), I think it's reasonable to ask Y pax not to pass through the F cabin in these circumstances. I also think it's reasonable to have Y pax waiting to use the forward lav either wait in the Y cabin or in the galley by the forward lav and not in the aisle in the F cabin.

DCP2016

Yup, expecting individuals to stay in their ticketed cabin/ticketed lavatories is a completely different argument on an international flight/widebody flight than it is on a narrowbody 2-4 hour flight.

SOBE ER DOC

AA also has a policy that no wheeled luggage is allowed as a carry-on when travel on a CRJ or EMB140/5. DL does not. If DL wants to establish this policy that is their business and they are under no obligation to hand out written copies of every single policy.


If you are that concerned about needed to go to the bathroom on a flight might I suggest using the facilities before departure. Further, unless you have an issue with incontinence, there are very few circumstances where someone cannot hold it until their turn in the line for the lav. If they want faster access to a lavatory then I suggest they purchase a ticket in F so they can have faster access to a lavatory.


If pax in Y find the stress of traveling in Y to be too much to bear I suggest they purchase a ticket in F like others choose to do. when I don't want to deal with Y I buy a ticker up front.


Per my earlier comment, unless you are incontinent, having to use the lavatory is usually not an emergency. If one can't hold it for a few minutes while waiting for your turn in line then that is an issue that one needs to address and prepare for advance of commencing air travel. Also, if this is an issue might I suggest attempting to select a seat in closer proximity to the lavatory in one's ticketed class of service.

We can argue this stuff back and forth all day and we are clearly not going to agree on this. You are welcome to your opinion and I to mine. You can think it's fine and I can be annoyed by what I perceive as rude passengers. In the end, it makes no difference. You are not going to occupy the lavatory in F on behalf of the huddled masses in Y and I am not going to install a moat and angry guard dogs at the threshold of the curtain.

defrosted

I think a good rule of thumb is if the privacy curtain is closed and you aren't seated in F, stay out of F.

Agreed, otherwise parents all over the world could be guilty of ignoring emergencies on road trips when declaring to their unruly children "hold it till the next stop".

However this thread has already taken a turn for the worse, so I shall reference the prairie doggin scene in the movie Rat Race. That is basically this thread when it comes to the "people have to go" argument. Maybe they have a point.

reimero

Recent 738 flight had a "is there a doctor onboard?" situation (I don't know the specifics, other than that it was in the rear third of the plane.) While this was going on, a number of pax in C+/Y used the lav in F, and there was even a point where 2 people were waiting up front. Once the medical emergency was resolved (positive ending, from what I could tell, thankfully), the FAs started directing Y pax back to the rear.

I wouldn't even have been paying attention, if not for this thread

dalehill