Big change on Upgrade policy Ex-AMS ( maybe more EU)
#48
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,411
Same day flight changes are not permitted without a change fee + fare difference unless there are IRROPS or schedule changes. I'm sure that KL can get away with doing free changes for some pax every now and then, but if this were a widespread practice I imagine it would be a big problem for DL. However, if there ends up being a delay or something, this could be a possibility.
#49
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Yes, understand what you are saying. But people complaining right here that they are waitlisted for mileage/GUC upgrades for months and not beeing cleared on DOD but instead KLM is selling these upgrades. and that is something they should complain about to Delta, not KLM. Delta could clear these upgrades at T-33 hours or so but choose not doing it. Then KLM takes over the flight and they handling it according to their rules.
#50
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Then why not use pay with miles and also earn MQMs for the trip, assuming that all segments are DL?
#52
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Pagus Bracbatensis, Kingdom of the Netherlands
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Still wonder if Delta knows what a mess it really was. Quit often the miles or GUC was never pulled, especially when pax did go to the gate and the upgrade process took place there.
Or after the introduction of C+ and W fares, KL agents selling upgrades to Delta One to their FB members for 10.000 miles;
El cheapo KLM 074 ticket with a V fare or so + EC seat on a Delta operated flight = W fare = Premium Economy, Fully Flexible ticket (AF-KLM)
Or after the introduction of C+ and W fares, KL agents selling upgrades to Delta One to their FB members for 10.000 miles;
El cheapo KLM 074 ticket with a V fare or so + EC seat on a Delta operated flight = W fare = Premium Economy, Fully Flexible ticket (AF-KLM)
#53
Used to be guidogh
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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I've flown through AMS quite a bit but only last year as DM. There are threads with pages upon pages of what a hot mess ex-AMS seems to be.
Before I was a medallion, probably not even collecting miles, there was a period where every time I asked the gate agents for an upgrade I received one. That was before introduction of D1. I am 6'7", and look Dutch, so it could have had a part in it.
Last year I waitlisted AMS-SEA and had a hell of a time getting the upgrade to clear. The lounge was very unhelpful. Finally a gate agent upgraded me and without taking my GUC. Can't really complain there.
The possibility of getting a 200 EUR plus 35k D1 upgrade always enticed me but was never successful. I think I'd rather have Delta clean it up, to make it more consistent if possible. I'll buy D1 if reasonable, but last minute 10k USD prices are not and that's when GUC or USD upgrades are great.
Before I was a medallion, probably not even collecting miles, there was a period where every time I asked the gate agents for an upgrade I received one. That was before introduction of D1. I am 6'7", and look Dutch, so it could have had a part in it.
Last year I waitlisted AMS-SEA and had a hell of a time getting the upgrade to clear. The lounge was very unhelpful. Finally a gate agent upgraded me and without taking my GUC. Can't really complain there.
The possibility of getting a 200 EUR plus 35k D1 upgrade always enticed me but was never successful. I think I'd rather have Delta clean it up, to make it more consistent if possible. I'll buy D1 if reasonable, but last minute 10k USD prices are not and that's when GUC or USD upgrades are great.
#54
Used to be guidogh
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Basically we have a situation that if you hold a Y, B or M ticket you can upgrade if space available until Check-in opens. After that it is not possible anymore, I really dont get it. If is a revenue issue, then they also should not allow it prior check-in.
Again, D1 cabins are typically sold out, or very close to selling out days before departure Ex-AMS ( you can check expertflyer). So in my opinion an argument of people not booking J because they can easily upgrade in AMS doesnt hold up. It is a gamble, only to be taken if you would not mind flying .
Everybody here says it is a mess at AMS, but is it not pure incompentence of DL that it is not working. AMS is probably the biggest DL hub in Europe with dozens of flights leaving and arriving every day. There are DL-employees in AMS, so structure it. give guidlines. I do not believe KL would mess up if it is clear how it works. KL-agents are generally experienced and good in what they do. Instruct, monitor and adjust. Thisis what they can do:
- up till now upgrading could take place at a Transer desk, the lounge, and check-in desk. Why not agreeing that it can only be done at a central Transfer desk. People who work there will be clearly instructed.
1.GUC clears
2. after all GUC clear and there are still seats open, mileage, or paid upgrades go according to a set schedule ( say 40-60K miles).
This way DL can optimalize both DM statisfaction and extra income or mileage burn.
Finally, what are Skymiles worth to a european customer? only buying full roundtrips with miles? Thanks but no. From now on I am actively avoiding DL metal. Probably you will say they wont miss me, thats fine. But I am probably not the only one.
Again, D1 cabins are typically sold out, or very close to selling out days before departure Ex-AMS ( you can check expertflyer). So in my opinion an argument of people not booking J because they can easily upgrade in AMS doesnt hold up. It is a gamble, only to be taken if you would not mind flying .
Everybody here says it is a mess at AMS, but is it not pure incompentence of DL that it is not working. AMS is probably the biggest DL hub in Europe with dozens of flights leaving and arriving every day. There are DL-employees in AMS, so structure it. give guidlines. I do not believe KL would mess up if it is clear how it works. KL-agents are generally experienced and good in what they do. Instruct, monitor and adjust. Thisis what they can do:
- up till now upgrading could take place at a Transer desk, the lounge, and check-in desk. Why not agreeing that it can only be done at a central Transfer desk. People who work there will be clearly instructed.
1.GUC clears
2. after all GUC clear and there are still seats open, mileage, or paid upgrades go according to a set schedule ( say 40-60K miles).
This way DL can optimalize both DM statisfaction and extra income or mileage burn.
Finally, what are Skymiles worth to a european customer? only buying full roundtrips with miles? Thanks but no. From now on I am actively avoiding DL metal. Probably you will say they wont miss me, thats fine. But I am probably not the only one.
#55
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Hasnt this been announced once before, only to not actually be the case? I can totally see DL stopping this. Just curious if it's lazy/untrained agents. I had them at lounge tell me AF no longer did DoD upgrades late last year.
#56
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#57
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,411
Basically we have a situation that if you hold a Y, B or M ticket you can upgrade if space available until Check-in opens. After that it is not possible anymore, I really dont get it. If is a revenue issue, then they also should not allow it prior check-in.
Again, D1 cabins are typically sold out, or very close to selling out days before departure Ex-AMS ( you can check expertflyer). So in my opinion an argument of people not booking J because they can easily upgrade in AMS doesnt hold up. It is a gamble, only to be taken if you would not mind flying .
Everybody here says it is a mess at AMS, but is it not pure incompentence of DL that it is not working. AMS is probably the biggest DL hub in Europe with dozens of flights leaving and arriving every day. There are DL-employees in AMS, so structure it. give guidlines. I do not believe KL would mess up if it is clear how it works. KL-agents are generally experienced and good in what they do. Instruct, monitor and adjust. Thisis what they can do:
- up till now upgrading could take place at a Transer desk, the lounge, and check-in desk. Why not agreeing that it can only be done at a central Transfer desk. People who work there will be clearly instructed.
1.GUC clears
2. after all GUC clear and there are still seats open, mileage, or paid upgrades go according to a set schedule ( say 40-60K miles).
This way DL can optimalize both DM statisfaction and extra income or mileage burn.
Finally, what are Skymiles worth to a european customer? only buying full roundtrips with miles? Thanks but no. From now on I am actively avoiding DL metal. Probably you will say they wont miss me, thats fine. But I am probably not the only one.
Again, D1 cabins are typically sold out, or very close to selling out days before departure Ex-AMS ( you can check expertflyer). So in my opinion an argument of people not booking J because they can easily upgrade in AMS doesnt hold up. It is a gamble, only to be taken if you would not mind flying .
Everybody here says it is a mess at AMS, but is it not pure incompentence of DL that it is not working. AMS is probably the biggest DL hub in Europe with dozens of flights leaving and arriving every day. There are DL-employees in AMS, so structure it. give guidlines. I do not believe KL would mess up if it is clear how it works. KL-agents are generally experienced and good in what they do. Instruct, monitor and adjust. Thisis what they can do:
- up till now upgrading could take place at a Transer desk, the lounge, and check-in desk. Why not agreeing that it can only be done at a central Transfer desk. People who work there will be clearly instructed.
1.GUC clears
2. after all GUC clear and there are still seats open, mileage, or paid upgrades go according to a set schedule ( say 40-60K miles).
This way DL can optimalize both DM statisfaction and extra income or mileage burn.
Finally, what are Skymiles worth to a european customer? only buying full roundtrips with miles? Thanks but no. From now on I am actively avoiding DL metal. Probably you will say they wont miss me, thats fine. But I am probably not the only one.
I presume that from DL's perspective, it does not make sense to have this one unique upgrade process that differs from every other station in the world. Also, DL does have a day of departure cash upgrade program that is selectively offered during online check in. Eliminating this outside process handled by another company allows DL to fully control upgrade inventory, and still, as you say "optimize both DM satisfaction and extra income or mileage burn." In fact, it probably helps them do a better job at this because they can fully manage the process, and account for things that a random agent at AMS won't.
#58
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Pagus Bracbatensis, Kingdom of the Netherlands
Programs: DL SPlat, KLM Bump, Privium Plus, GOES
Posts: 2,065
For flights departing from AMS you check in with KLM, even with a 006 issued ticket and a Delta marketed and operated flight. There is no day of departure cash upgrade program that is selectively offered during online check in, there is no waitlist and they don't fully manage the process as only KLM can clear that DM's GUC. A DL agent can't..
If Delta wants to optimalize both DM satisfaction and extra income or mileage burn they best cut KLM out of this process.
If Delta wants to optimalize both DM satisfaction and extra income or mileage burn they best cut KLM out of this process.
Last edited by Grouchy; Jan 18, 2019 at 11:22 am
#59
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,411
For flights departing from AMS you check in with KLM, even with a 006 issued ticket and a Delta marketed and operated flight. There is no day of departure cash upgrade program that is selectively offered during online check in, there is no waitlist and they don't fully manage the process as only KLM can clear that DM's GUC. A DL agent can't..
If Delta wants to optimalize both DM satisfaction and extra income or mileage burn they best cut KLM out of this process.
If Delta wants to optimalize both DM satisfaction and extra income or mileage burn they best cut KLM out of this process.
#60
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Pagus Bracbatensis, Kingdom of the Netherlands
Programs: DL SPlat, KLM Bump, Privium Plus, GOES
Posts: 2,065
At least this was happening for the last couple of years. Did it change somewhere in the last 10 days?