Need advice..contacting corporate re: "soft landing"
Jan 7, 2019, 10:18 am
#31
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NYC
Programs: Delta DM, 2MM
Posts: 1,254
DL has published requirements that award loyalty ... I'm sorry, but you either qualify or you dont. I understand that you feel that long-term loyalty should garner some ackwnowledgement, but that's not how the aviation business works these days (unless you consider the Million Miler mark on your medallion tag as some level of acknowledgement)
It sounds to me that you are trying to justify lots of potential scenarios, but at the end of the day, they are just that ... "potential" scenarios.
The airline is in the business to make money, they do so with quantifiable stats, not with unsubstantiated hypotheticals.
Congrats on your MQD waiver, but as far as I'm concerned, the waivers were granted this year to ease some of the angst caused by the program change; I'm firmly of the belief that there will not be nearly as many waivers granted next year.
It sounds to me that you are trying to justify lots of potential scenarios, but at the end of the day, they are just that ... "potential" scenarios.
The airline is in the business to make money, they do so with quantifiable stats, not with unsubstantiated hypotheticals.
Congrats on your MQD waiver, but as far as I'm concerned, the waivers were granted this year to ease some of the angst caused by the program change; I'm firmly of the belief that there will not be nearly as many waivers granted next year.
There is a value to making customers happy. Delta knows this.
Jan 7, 2019, 10:21 am
#32
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NYC
Programs: Delta DM, 2MM
Posts: 1,254
There are definitely haters in here, and throughout. There are people who are also not haters, and I do understand that one can scroll on, but it does become pedantic at some points.
No, no it is not stealing from a GM...
No, it is not stealing from anyone.
I have absolutely zero expectation that a "soft landing" would be given, but I'm not altogether surprised that a person might think an exception from over a decade of loyalty could be made from/for "one bad year." But, it is really tiresome to read that some would accuse his benefit or potential benefit as being "stealing from other members." Haters gonna hate, and I don't expect it will stop anytime soon.
No, no it is not stealing from a GM...
No, it is not stealing from anyone.
I have absolutely zero expectation that a "soft landing" would be given, but I'm not altogether surprised that a person might think an exception from over a decade of loyalty could be made from/for "one bad year." But, it is really tiresome to read that some would accuse his benefit or potential benefit as being "stealing from other members." Haters gonna hate, and I don't expect it will stop anytime soon.
Consequently, there's a reason why I will pay a premium to fly Delta, even when other carriers are cheaper or have a better routing.
Jan 7, 2019, 11:02 am
#33
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
There are definitely haters in here, and throughout. There are people who are also not haters, and I do understand that one can scroll on, but it does become pedantic at some points.
No, no it is not stealing from a GM...
No, it is not stealing from anyone.
I have absolutely zero expectation that a "soft landing" would be given, but I'm not altogether surprised that a person might think an exception from over a decade of loyalty could be made from/for "one bad year." But, it is really tiresome to read that some would accuse his benefit or potential benefit as being "stealing from other members." Haters gonna hate, and I don't expect it will stop anytime soon.
No, no it is not stealing from a GM...
No, it is not stealing from anyone.
I have absolutely zero expectation that a "soft landing" would be given, but I'm not altogether surprised that a person might think an exception from over a decade of loyalty could be made from/for "one bad year." But, it is really tiresome to read that some would accuse his benefit or potential benefit as being "stealing from other members." Haters gonna hate, and I don't expect it will stop anytime soon.
But, this is a zero-sum game. If there is only one UG on a given flight, the question becomes who gets it. You or me? If I met the qualifications for one level and you did not meet the qualifications for that level, yet are given preferential treatment, I lose and you win. I don't want that to happen.
It's not personal and I could care less that it is you. You will also have done nothing wrong. But, DL will have done something wrong and and to the extent that favoring you cements your loyalty and destroys mine, it can't be said that it comes at "no cost". Perhaps no cost to you, but a cost to DL and to me.
Jan 7, 2019, 12:08 pm
#34
Join Date: Mar 2018
Programs: SkyMiles 2018 PM, 2019 PM, 2020 PM, 2021 PM, 2022 PM, 2023 PM...
Posts: 314
"Stealing" is the wrong term and not warranted,
But, this is a zero-sum game. If there is only one UG on a given flight, the question becomes who gets it. You or me? If I met the qualifications for one level and you did not meet the qualifications for that level, yet are given preferential treatment, I lose and you win. I don't want that to happen.
It's not personal and I could care less that it is you. You will also have done nothing wrong. But, DL will have done something wrong and and to the extent that favoring you cements your loyalty and destroys mine, it can't be said that it comes at "no cost". Perhaps no cost to you, but a cost to DL and to me.
But, this is a zero-sum game. If there is only one UG on a given flight, the question becomes who gets it. You or me? If I met the qualifications for one level and you did not meet the qualifications for that level, yet are given preferential treatment, I lose and you win. I don't want that to happen.
It's not personal and I could care less that it is you. You will also have done nothing wrong. But, DL will have done something wrong and and to the extent that favoring you cements your loyalty and destroys mine, it can't be said that it comes at "no cost". Perhaps no cost to you, but a cost to DL and to me.
Given that we all know there are multiple benefits for achieving status, and that many people argue that UGs are not always the most important, we have our first point of departure from zero sum.
Since other passengers do not lose out on anything with those benefits it is clearly not "what I lose you gain." Delta clear does not think rewarding future loyalty is a loss to them, otherwise they wouldn't have the program at all.
In the case of UGs the fallacy that is presented states various versions of entitlement and "you or me?" sometimes with gratuitous levels of "the DM is owed."
When I flight takes off with empty seats in FC I think there is a basis for saying someone's UG was owed. When someone else who lists higher than you gets the UG, that is the end of the story, nothing about how another person was listed on the UG list has anything to do with any other passenger, that is exclusively between the passenger and Delta.
Jan 8, 2019, 3:08 am
#35
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: ATL
Programs: A few
Posts: 133
I respect your opinion, I won't try to change your mind or argue further; I propose a comprimise: Let's have this same discussion again around Jan of 2020
Jan 8, 2019, 5:46 am
#36
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
I don't want to get nit-picky but it is not zero sum, that was stated earlier as part of the "it is stealing" argument.
Given that we all know there are multiple benefits for achieving status, and that many people argue that UGs are not always the most important, we have our first point of departure from zero sum.
Since other passengers do not lose out on anything with those benefits it is clearly not "what I lose you gain." Delta clear does not think rewarding future loyalty is a loss to them, otherwise they wouldn't have the program at all.
In the case of UGs the fallacy that is presented states various versions of entitlement and "you or me?" sometimes with gratuitous levels of "the DM is owed."
When I flight takes off with empty seats in FC I think there is a basis for saying someone's UG was owed. When someone else who lists higher than you gets the UG, that is the end of the story, nothing about how another person was listed on the UG list has anything to do with any other passenger, that is exclusively between the passenger and Delta.
Given that we all know there are multiple benefits for achieving status, and that many people argue that UGs are not always the most important, we have our first point of departure from zero sum.
Since other passengers do not lose out on anything with those benefits it is clearly not "what I lose you gain." Delta clear does not think rewarding future loyalty is a loss to them, otherwise they wouldn't have the program at all.
In the case of UGs the fallacy that is presented states various versions of entitlement and "you or me?" sometimes with gratuitous levels of "the DM is owed."
When I flight takes off with empty seats in FC I think there is a basis for saying someone's UG was owed. When someone else who lists higher than you gets the UG, that is the end of the story, nothing about how another person was listed on the UG list has anything to do with any other passenger, that is exclusively between the passenger and Delta.
Jan 8, 2019, 6:01 am
#38
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,399
I don't want to get nit-picky but it is not zero sum, that was stated earlier as part of the "it is stealing" argument.
Given that we all know there are multiple benefits for achieving status, and that many people argue that UGs are not always the most important, we have our first point of departure from zero sum.
Since other passengers do not lose out on anything with those benefits it is clearly not "what I lose you gain." Delta clear does not think rewarding future loyalty is a loss to them, otherwise they wouldn't have the program at all.
In the case of UGs the fallacy that is presented states various versions of entitlement and "you or me?" sometimes with gratuitous levels of "the DM is owed."
When I flight takes off with empty seats in FC I think there is a basis for saying someone's UG was owed. When someone else who lists higher than you gets the UG, that is the end of the story, nothing about how another person was listed on the UG list has anything to do with any other passenger, that is exclusively between the passenger and Delta.
Given that we all know there are multiple benefits for achieving status, and that many people argue that UGs are not always the most important, we have our first point of departure from zero sum.
Since other passengers do not lose out on anything with those benefits it is clearly not "what I lose you gain." Delta clear does not think rewarding future loyalty is a loss to them, otherwise they wouldn't have the program at all.
In the case of UGs the fallacy that is presented states various versions of entitlement and "you or me?" sometimes with gratuitous levels of "the DM is owed."
When I flight takes off with empty seats in FC I think there is a basis for saying someone's UG was owed. When someone else who lists higher than you gets the UG, that is the end of the story, nothing about how another person was listed on the UG list has anything to do with any other passenger, that is exclusively between the passenger and Delta.
So Shena is fine as long as every FC seat is occupied? Sorry, but I earned my upgrades which are a published program benefit. It's not OK if someone else who didn't earn the same priority as I did receives the upgrade instead. I don't care that the other person flew DL more in earlier years or whatever, the fact is that the hypothetical other person in this example did not earn his elite status tier according to DL's published requirements.
Jan 8, 2019, 6:43 am
#39
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Programs: DL DM 1.929MM, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, IHG Platinum, Avis CHM, Marriott Titanium (lifetime gold)
Posts: 7,858
It's kind of funny that many folks in this thread get their knickers in a twist at the thought of Delta doing a favor for the OP. Yet I strongly suspect that some of those same folks have been the recipients of favors from Delta.
Kind of "it's okay for Delta to do small favors for me, but not okay for Delta to do a larger favor for somebody else."
I would point out that doing a favor for a customer is a huge way to win loyalty. Some time back maybe 10 years ago, I was about ready to defect to Continental. Then something happened and Kevin Pinto took care of it. It was a significant favor and kept me on board with Delta. That paid dividends in keeping my business (which is not large, but added up over 10 years) with Delta until my flying finally tailed off last year.
Kind of "it's okay for Delta to do small favors for me, but not okay for Delta to do a larger favor for somebody else."
I would point out that doing a favor for a customer is a huge way to win loyalty. Some time back maybe 10 years ago, I was about ready to defect to Continental. Then something happened and Kevin Pinto took care of it. It was a significant favor and kept me on board with Delta. That paid dividends in keeping my business (which is not large, but added up over 10 years) with Delta until my flying finally tailed off last year.
Jan 8, 2019, 7:07 am
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,043
It's mostly just about reality and the fact that the airlines (all airlines, not just Delta) have significantly curtailed such "soft landings" in recent years. There were a couple of recent posts in the AA forum with similar stories from long-term elites. Yes, we all know airlines we do various waivers and rules bendings. This just happens to be one that they rarely seem to do these days. You can argue that it "makes sense" until you are blue in the face, but it doesn't really matter if the airlines no longer see it that way. No need to get bent out of shape about it. As was mentioned above, there may very well be some sort of un-advertised "Back to Status Challenge" which sounds like it might be acceptable to OP as he mentioned a challenge. This challenge was mentioned by another poster within the last year.
Jan 8, 2019, 7:21 am
#41
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Programs: DL DM 1.929MM, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, IHG Platinum, Avis CHM, Marriott Titanium (lifetime gold)
Posts: 7,858
Jan 8, 2019, 8:36 am
#42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: DCA
Programs: DL DM, AA EXP, various hotel
Posts: 2,227
"Stealing" is the wrong term and not warranted,
But, this is a zero-sum game. If there is only one UG on a given flight, the question becomes who gets it. You or me? If I met the qualifications for one level and you did not meet the qualifications for that level, yet are given preferential treatment, I lose and you win. I don't want that to happen.
It's not personal and I could care less that it is you. You will also have done nothing wrong. But, DL will have done something wrong and and to the extent that favoring you cements your loyalty and destroys mine, it can't be said that it comes at "no cost". Perhaps no cost to you, but a cost to DL and to me.
But, this is a zero-sum game. If there is only one UG on a given flight, the question becomes who gets it. You or me? If I met the qualifications for one level and you did not meet the qualifications for that level, yet are given preferential treatment, I lose and you win. I don't want that to happen.
It's not personal and I could care less that it is you. You will also have done nothing wrong. But, DL will have done something wrong and and to the extent that favoring you cements your loyalty and destroys mine, it can't be said that it comes at "no cost". Perhaps no cost to you, but a cost to DL and to me.
Jan 8, 2019, 9:59 am
#43
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SLC
Programs: UA 1K//DL Plat//Bonvoy Plat
Posts: 201
It's not OK if someone else who didn't earn the same priority as I did receives the upgrade instead. I don't care that the other person flew DL more in earlier years or whatever, the fact is that the hypothetical other person in this example did not earn his elite status tier according to DL's published requirements.
dave.
Jan 8, 2019, 10:11 am
#44
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MEM
Programs: Starbucks Green Card
Posts: 5,431
That's only because past activity is the least-bad proxy for future activity that the airlines have. And note, it's not "past activity" it's "recent activity". that past activity only counts for a short while so if you're not constantly generating new activity you won't continue to be rewarded for it.
Jan 8, 2019, 10:42 am
#45
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
There's absolutely nothing in the program terms that says that meeting the MQM/MQD/MQS thresholds is the sole way to qualify for status. DL gives out status plenty through corporate incentive programs—do you also object to that? This is no different. DL can give out status outside the normal qualification methods to incentivize purchasing behavior it wants to incentivize.
There is not one post in this thread which suggests that DL cannot award status or perhaps more importantly, hand out freebies, to any person it wishes to.
The question is whether DL ought to do it for this particular OP.
As with all aspects of program design, so long as I get taken care of, I could care less about the rest of the world.