DF136BRC

jdrtravel

Even DL ground staff organizing could potentially be helpful to DGS staff, as the DL union contract could very well include some demands for those workers as well.

FlyingNone

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In that sense you are right. However, had DL employees voted for a union years ago, less outsourcing and use of third-party vendors would have been the case. Like United, the IAM could not prevent "some" outsourcing or prevent UA from using regional carriers, but they surely saved many United jobs by negotiating levels and limits of who and how the company (UA) would use in place of their own in-house employees. Foolproof ?, no, but at least a voice of negotiation (reason if you will) between the company and it's employees. Indeed, many jobs were saved and some were brought back in-house when all the flaws manifested themselves. If I worked for DL, I would be very leery of future job security.

Christefan

This outsourcing business has been going on for a long time and really started oversees. Delta has no oversees stations anymore with their own employees performing the typical airport tasks. In many cases a station only has one Delta station manager that oversees the daily operations of a locally hired sub-contractors. In many cases these sub-contractors could care less about Delta's policies and customer service since it is just "another" job for them. In the long run this will hurt Delta because "Delta values" are not lived through their own employees, something that Delta's CEO tries to sell every traveler in his introduction to the inflight safety videos month after month. This is just another part of the race to the bottom...

FlyingNone

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Right,....it's just a matter of time before all or most wake up and realize they can pay people minimum wage with little or no benefits or incentive - just an hourly wage/ paycheck - which is agreeable to a large segment of people (ie., 10th grade education, immigrants, etc) who have had the lowest paying jobs and, oh wow, will now work for a world class airline. Only they don't initially realize that they are hired and are working for Mr. Smith's Outsourcing Company. As well, many large corporations feel it is just as easy to have a third-party vendor to do the hiring, training, payroll, etc. and then have frequent turnover which is less expensive than keeping long-term, full-time, permanent employees. Working for an airline today is nothing but a "show them how to use the kiosk" job. There is no such thing as handling ticketing problems, trouble shooting, thinking out of the box, engaging in discussion, etc., meaning - the quality of life is going to be a lot less than people expect. Passengers book themselves online, check-in online, now can issue their own bag tags online - why should an airline pay their "own" employees to do that when 95% of this is automated? Irregular ops at gates - well, we all know how that goes nowadays. Nobody really cares,....it's all about money - making it and saving it. Race to the bottom, indeed.

ND76

It is interesting that Argenbright is apparently the purchaser of DGS. I remember them as the security checkpoint contractor at a number of Delta stations pre-TSA. I had been curious whatever happened to them after the TSA took over the airport checkpoints.

Loadmaster

3rd party ground handling companies can actually increase service levels, they are held to SLAs, of which are typically more stringent than internal airline requirements; if you don't hit your marks, you're subject to fines/penalties & possible contract cancellation. This leaves the airline with a simple out to switch providers in 30 days, hard to beat that level of realignment with internal staff.

The local airline station managers do a good job of keeping their vendors in check, but obviously there will be some less-than-stellar mgrs from time to time. At the end of the day, if the airline isn't getting the performace they seek, they can cancel in 30 days, which is pretty attractive as you can't flip that same switch with internal staff.

I know many airline station managers that swear by 3rd party GHs just for the simple fact that they can attain higher service standards than they could employing internal staff.

On another note, the vast majority of 3rd party GHs in the US are NOT paying "minimum wage" ... far from it. At most major airports, 3rd party GHs are starting at $12-$15/hr for basic entry level positions, slightly less as you expand out to smaller airports.

RedRooibos

Not a major DL follower, as I only tend to fly JNB-ATL as based in South Africa, but I'm sure I heard from a DL colleague in South Africa that they are actually 'in-sourcing' at RDU and I think one other large airport (but not hub) GH roles away from GHAs to work directly with DL.

Here in South Africa the contrast can be very stark - someone working for DLs or a European Airline GHA here earns probably 3 or 4 times less than an established long serving employee with BA Comair or SAA; and recieves only the bare basics when it comes to Pension or Medical Plans. Don't worry though, top preforming colleagues going in a yearly raffle to win one free space avaliable round trip standby ticket

Qwkynuf

Should we all get off your lawn now?

woodford02A

This is simply not true. I don't argue with some of your other points, but your information is incorrect.

jdrtravel

In what universe is $12-$15/hr "far from" minimum wage? It's really not that much more than the $7.25/hour federal minimum wage, and many states and municipalities have minimum wages that are higher, and some airports even have special minimum wages for the airport.

Christefan

OK then, just list the stations that you know have all Delta employees working check-in and gate(s).

3Cforme

Tell somebody making a state/local $12 minimum wage that $12 isn't far from the $7.25 minimum wage. Outside of the Northeast and West Coast, minimum wages are generally less than $10 - and lots of people live in areas with the Federal minimum wage.

Minimum Wage by U.S. State as of July 1, 2018 - FactsMaps

ethernal

Probably a bit of a shock to the average Flyertalk poster, but median personal income in the United States is only about $30K a year (which equates to $15/hr for 50 weeks a year at full time). Admittedly this includes part time workers, but median income for full time workers in 2017 was only about $43-44K/year. For a job with probably minimal formal education requirements, $15/hour is actually a reasonable (although not great) wage in a lower cost of living city. Making $15/hr versus $8/hour is a massive difference in standard of living - anywhere in the US, $8/hour will be a struggle with a single job and no overtime; $15/hour you can make things work pretty easily in lower cost of living metros.

HDQDD

That is absolutely false. If they were unionized, they would be outsourced faster. Unions add a ton of waste and no benefit to the company, it's consumers, and even much of the unionized workforce.

Good try with the false union propaganda, but take it from a former UA IAM employee: UA has outsourced most of its non-hub stations. Employment is a fraction of what it was just a decade or two ago. Rampers making six figures isn't sustainable.

Having been on both sides, I can say that unions are great for the lazy and incompetent. You can be a total POS and it'll be months before you get fired. However, for good employees it makes their jobs worse having to work with the bad apples. I don't know how many times my lazy union brothers gave me crap for "working too hard" or how many times my legitimate grievances were negotiated away so the union could keep the bad apples (read: numbers = money). Seriously, is that "winning"? It's not surprising that union membership is down 75% in the last 35 years, but I'm sure China and Mexico are thankful.