First Time Booking a Refundable Fare

Old Dec 27, 2018, 10:34 pm
  #16  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SEA
Programs: AS MVPG, DL FO, Marriott Gold, Hertz 5 Whatevers
Posts: 1,097
Originally Posted by GagaPilot
OP here. Thanks everyone for the replies. I have copied the full fare rules below for the exact Fare Code I have for both outbound and return segments. Based on my reading I do not see any penalty amount to be forfeited in the event of a cancel. Ultimately if there was one it would not be the end of the world, and I do fly DL frequently for leisure so could always use a certificate. Just curious if anyone sees any wording here to indicate otherwise.
...
I've purchased a refundable ticket with the exact language under the Penalties section before and ended up cancelling the ticket and got every cent back. Didn't even go through DL customer service for my ticket. Basically clicked the change flight button on the website, clicked cancel, and DL displayed a screen asking me how I'd like my refund (e.g. ticket voucher or full refund to CC). Surprisingly painless. You can call customer service to clarify the fare rules as well if you're concerned (as you should be - it's probably not a cheap ticket!!)

And ... I'd take the full refund. My credit card gives me travel protection only if I pay for my ticket in full with it.

Last edited by 3Cforme; Dec 28, 2018 at 4:53 am Reason: no need to repeat fare rules
ab2013 is offline  
Old Dec 28, 2018, 10:24 am
  #17  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,191
Originally Posted by GagaPilot
OP here. Thanks everyone for the replies. I have copied the full fare rules below for the exact Fare Code I have for both outbound and return segments. Based on my reading I do not see any penalty amount to be forfeited in the event of a cancel. Ultimately if there was one it would not be the end of the world, and I do fly DL frequently for leisure so could always use a certificate. Just curious if anyone sees any wording here to indicate otherwise.
The relevant section is "Penalties" where it says "CANCELLATIONS CANCELLATIONS PERMITTED. CHANGES CHANGES PERMITTED. "
That means 100% refundable to original form of payment. If there was a cancellation fee or change fee, it would say so there.
ijgordon is offline  
Old Dec 31, 2018, 10:32 am
  #18  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: DUS
Programs: DL PM (was DL DM for 3yrs), HHonors Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,067
I have a similar question:

If I book an international r/t with the return as a REFUNDABLE/CHANGEABLE B-fare can I downgrade it to a T-fare or whatever once I nail down the return date? Would I be able to get the difference back to the original form of payment (or at least an eCredit)?
EZEDoesIt is offline  
Old Dec 31, 2018, 12:13 pm
  #19  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,334
Would you make the change before or after flying the outbound portion? Wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy the restricted T ticket and then pay the change fees? That way you would at least get the T fare on the outbound part and whatever is available for the return if you make the chances after arriving at your destination. If you do the changes before travel begins, you would just be cancelling the B fare ticket, taking the refund (assuming that this is a fully refundable B fare) and purchasing the cheapest coach ticket that's available at the time you make the change.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Old Dec 31, 2018, 12:34 pm
  #20  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: DUS
Programs: DL PM (was DL DM for 3yrs), HHonors Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,067
I should have been more specific. I would be making the change after flying the outbound T-fare.

My thought was that if I didn't mind having the cash tied up I could avoid paying the change fee by initially paying for B and risking that T is available for my future date-of-choice.
EZEDoesIt is offline  
Old Dec 31, 2018, 12:37 pm
  #21  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HHonrs Diamond
Posts: 1,336
Talking

Originally Posted by GagaPilot
AND THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN DCA AIRPORT AND LAX ON AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A330-200 AIRCRAFT ON NONSTOP FLIGHTS. AND THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN DCA AIRPORT AND LAX ON AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A330-300 AIRCRAFT ON NONSTOP FLIGHTS. AND THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN DCA AIRPORT AND LAX ON AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A350-900 AIRCRAFT ON NONSTOP FLIGHTS. AND THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN DCA AIRPORT AND LAX ON BOEING 767-400 AIRCRAFT ON NONSTOP FLIGHTS. AND THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN DCA AIRPORT AND LAX ON BOEING 767-300 WINGLETS AIRCRAFT ON NONSTOP FLIGHTS. AND THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN DCA AIRPORT AND LAX ON BOEING 777 AIRCRAFT ON NONSTOP FLIGHTS. AND THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN DCA AIRPORT AND LAX ON BOEING 777-200LR AIRCRAFT ON NONSTOP FLIGHTS. AND THE FARE
Darn, that takes down a huge chunk of their schedule right there :/
We knew they were going to have trouble finding routes for the A350 with their shrinking Asia route map, but this is ridiculous, and maybe a little risky on a runway that short.
Still, the fact that they get so detailed regarding their widebodies and include the A350 means that it has at least crossed their mind that they might use these on domestic routes for more than a one-off like LAS in January for CES.
FlyBitcoin is offline  
Old Jan 2, 2019, 8:51 am
  #22  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,191
Originally Posted by EZEDoesIt
I should have been more specific. I would be making the change after flying the outbound T-fare.

My thought was that if I didn't mind having the cash tied up I could avoid paying the change fee by initially paying for B and risking that T is available for my future date-of-choice.
"If the itinerary has more than one fare rule, the most restrictive rule applies to the entire itinerary."
So you can't really do what you're trying to (and clearly you're not the first person to think of it ).
Just book the T fare and pay the change fee after you finalize your plans. There will not be a fare difference, unless there is no "T" inventory on your desired return flight, then you'll have to buy up to whatever is available.

Alternatively, if you're traveling in a market where one-way fares are available at half the round-trips, then you could purchase two separate one-way fares. However, there's still really no benefit of booking a one-way B fare on the return trip that you will likely have to change. You'll just end up having to cancel that fare and rebook at the lowest available fare at that time (which may be more or less expensive than the current T fare).
ijgordon is offline  
Old Jan 2, 2019, 9:32 am
  #23  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: DUS
Programs: DL PM (was DL DM for 3yrs), HHonors Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,067
Originally Posted by ijgordon
"If the itinerary has more than one fare rule, the most restrictive rule applies to the entire itinerary."
Yeah, that's really annoying. Fares should be more friendly. Do you really think agents are reviewing the outbound fare rules when repricing the inbound (after the outbound has been flown)? I think HUCA may apply here, but by the book I see now that fronting extra cash to avoid a change fee probably isn't going to work.

Since the two fare rules are independent on a r/t this also makes me wonder why one isn't charge two change fees when changing a non-refundable r/t before flying any portion of it?
EZEDoesIt is offline  
Old Jan 2, 2019, 10:23 am
  #24  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K
Posts: 21,309
Originally Posted by EZEDoesIt
Yeah, that's really annoying. Fares should be more friendly.
but half of FT would cease to exist!

Originally Posted by EZEDoesIt
Do you really think agents are reviewing the outbound fare rules when repricing the inbound (after the outbound has been flown)? I think HUCA may apply here, but by the book I see now that fronting extra cash to avoid a change fee probably isn't going to work.

Since the two fare rules are independent on a r/t this also makes me wonder why one isn't charge two change fees when changing a non-refundable r/t before flying any portion of it?
PLEASE don't give DL or any other airline any ideas
jrl767 is offline  
Old Jan 2, 2019, 10:34 am
  #25  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,334
Originally Posted by ijgordon
"If the itinerary has more than one fare rule, the most restrictive rule applies to the entire itinerary."
So you can't really do what you're trying to (and clearly you're not the first person to think of it ).
Just book the T fare and pay the change fee after you finalize your plans. There will not be a fare difference, unless there is no "T" inventory on your desired return flight, then you'll have to buy up to whatever is available.

Alternatively, if you're traveling in a market where one-way fares are available at half the round-trips, then you could purchase two separate one-way fares. However, there's still really no benefit of booking a one-way B fare on the return trip that you will likely have to change. You'll just end up having to cancel that fare and rebook at the lowest available fare at that time (which may be more or less expensive than the current T fare).
Exactly.

Moreover, some fares might not be combinable into RTs. A T fare outbound could require a T or other low fare class (nonrefundable) on the return, or if you want refundable (for whatever reason) in the return direction, the ticket could be forced into a full Y fare.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Old Jan 2, 2019, 11:00 am
  #26  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Hilton Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 26,956
Originally Posted by FlyBitcoin
Darn, that takes down a huge chunk of their schedule right there :/
We knew they were going to have trouble finding routes for the A350 with their shrinking Asia route map, but this is ridiculous, and maybe a little risky on a runway that short.
Still, the fact that they get so detailed regarding their widebodies and include the A350 means that it has at least crossed their mind that they might use these on domestic routes for more than a one-off like LAS in January for CES.
This is template material. Has zero to do with actually considering using it on the route.
flyerCO is offline  
Old Jan 2, 2019, 12:33 pm
  #27  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,191
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Exactly.

Moreover, some fares might not be combinable into RTs. A T fare outbound could require a T or other low fare class (nonrefundable) on the return, or if you want refundable (for whatever reason) in the return direction, the ticket could be forced into a full Y fare.
Yeah, that could be the case, but the more practical issue is that I don't think you can force Delta.com to mix refundable and nonrefundable anyway. You'd at least have to call an agent (or use a travel agent).
ijgordon is offline  
Old Jan 2, 2019, 12:40 pm
  #28  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,191
Originally Posted by EZEDoesIt
Yeah, that's really annoying. Fares should be more friendly. Do you really think agents are reviewing the outbound fare rules when repricing the inbound (after the outbound has been flown)? I think HUCA may apply here, but by the book I see now that fronting extra cash to avoid a change fee probably isn't going to work.
I can't say for sure, but it's not something I'd want to risk.
Since the two fare rules are independent on a r/t this also makes me wonder why one isn't charge two change fees when changing a non-refundable r/t before flying any portion of it?
Well, again, only "the most restrictive rule [singular] applies". But if you're changing the first segment of an itinerary, the ticket will be repriced at current fares, like purchasing an entirely new ticket, and will be subject to advance purchase requirements of the fare. If you're changing subsequent segments, even before initial departure, the rules usually state the ticket can be repriced at the historical fare, meaning no fare change. (Though IME, agents sometimes have an issue understanding this and tend to want to reprice at current fares before departure even if you're just changing the return.)
MSPeconomist likes this.
ijgordon is offline  
Old Jan 2, 2019, 6:46 pm
  #29  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: DUS
Programs: DL PM (was DL DM for 3yrs), HHonors Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,067
Originally Posted by ijgordon
Well, again, only "the most restrictive rule [singular] applies".
Then the only advantage for buying a more expensive fare for half a r/t is to pay for money to the airline!
EZEDoesIt is offline  
Old Jan 2, 2019, 6:57 pm
  #30  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,334
Originally Posted by EZEDoesIt
Then the only advantage for buying a more expensive fare for half a r/t is to pay for money to the airline!
That would earn more MQDs for you as well as more RDMs. It could also help on getting to a DL AmEx threshold and even more RDMs as well as the bonus MQMs (to keep or gift if it's the Reserve card).
MSPeconomist is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.