Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles
Reload this Page >

Delta Bans Puppies and Kittens as Service/Support Animals

Delta Bans Puppies and Kittens as Service/Support Animals

Old Dec 10, 18, 11:01 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego
Programs: IHG Spire Amb, HH Gold, DL Diamond and 1MM
Posts: 3,379
Delta Bans Puppies and Kittens as Service/Support Animals

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/de...uls-2018-12-10

Title says it all. Also, in-cabin emotional support animals of all kinds are banned on flights longer than eight hours.
BenA likes this.
Bowgie is offline  
Old Dec 11, 18, 12:01 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 5
This was just about inevitable… With everyone abusing the system and was claiming just about everything was emotional support. It makes perfect sense on the extended long-haul flights there’s no realistic place for animals to use the bathroom so it was pretty inhumane.
gyallis is offline  
Old Dec 11, 18, 6:34 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Programs: delta, american, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 30
Good and sensible move. I hope other airlines follow suit.
stormbandit is offline  
Old Dec 11, 18, 7:22 am
  #4  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Hilton Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 16,539
I agree that the whole ESA thing has gotten out of hand. However absent DOT rule changes, this new policy blantly against the law. DL seems to think they can take action in absence of DOT changing the rules. Not how it works.
enviroian and kthomas like this.
flyerCO is offline  
Old Dec 11, 18, 8:28 am
  #5  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 83,931
Given the training that genuine service animals undergo, it would be unlikely that one would qualify (even to take a flight as part of training) at an age under four months. So the biggest impact of the change would apparently be to require the supposed ESAs aged between six or eight weeks (the fully weened requirement that carriers seem to impose) and four months to fly as paid cabin pets rather than for free as ESAs.

The maximum scheduled flight duration rules might have the unfortunate consequence of limiting travel (or forcing routes with more connections, but what if the connecting airport doesn't have bathroom facilities for animals?) for those who genuinely need service and support animals. I suspect that some routes such as TPAC cannot be covered with flights under six or eight hours, although perhaps the solution would be to go through Hawaii from the west coast, like people did many decades ago. OTOH, other countries have customs/import rules for live animals, so it might be impossible or difficult to take a service/support animal everywhere, even if there are foreign hotels that would allow the animal. Of course, any rules/restrictions would apply whenever the person must enter a country along the way, including attempting to go landside to provide a potty break for the animal.
nancypants and SeaHawg like this.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Old Dec 11, 18, 8:59 am
  #6  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DTW, but drive to/from YYZ/ORD
Programs: Chase Ultimate Rewards 2MM, Diner Club points
Posts: 10,770
So pax will need to provide long form birth certificate of ESA?
rufflesinc is offline  
Old Dec 11, 18, 10:04 am
  #7  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,338
Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
I agree that the whole ESA thing has gotten out of hand. However absent DOT rule changes, this new policy blantly against the law. DL seems to think they can take action in absence of DOT changing the rules. Not how it works.
Not sure about DOT rules, but Emotional Support Animals are not automatically given the same "protection' and 'rights' as other "trained" service animals. (
Orange County Commuter is offline  
Old Dec 11, 18, 10:16 am
  #8  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Hilton Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 16,539
Originally Posted by Orange County Commuter View Post
Not sure about DOT rules, but Emotional Support Animals are not automatically given the same "protection' and 'rights' as other "trained" service animals. (
Under current DOT rules ESA and service animals are on equal footing. It's part of the problem.
flyerCO is offline  
Old Dec 11, 18, 10:26 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: VPS
Programs: IHG Spire, Delta Silver
Posts: 3,880
The four month minimum seems to sync with rabies vaccination schedule- the booster shot for kittens is supposed to be given at week 16. Which would seem to be a very reasonable public health standard if it came up in court, given the 99.9% fatality rate after rabies infection.
beachmouse is offline  
Old Dec 11, 18, 11:13 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: HSV
Programs: Bellevue Lifetime Premiere Mega Elite Supreme
Posts: 1,332
Tomorrow’s headlines will read: Delta Hates Puppies and Kittens, Fuels Jets with Blood of Newborn Infants.
ATLCDG, TommyD2, kthomas and 3 others like this.
TheHorta is online now  
Old Dec 11, 18, 11:24 am
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,174
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
The four month minimum seems to sync with rabies vaccination schedule- the booster shot for kittens is supposed to be given at week 16. Which would seem to be a very reasonable public health standard if it came up in court, given the 99.9% fatality rate after rabies infection.
I suspect - as FlyerCO does not - that Delta has had a lot of lawyers parse the relevant regs rather diligently.

Example: prohibiting ES animals on long-haul. The CFR allows carriers to set more rigorous standards on flights over eight hours. Can anyone reasonably affirm that the ESA dog 'won't do his business' on a flight that long? No? That's Delta's in for prohibiting them.
DiverDave likes this.
3Cforme is offline  
Old Dec 11, 18, 11:51 am
  #12  
Ari
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 10,996
Delta says that their new policy is "consistent with the principles" of the ACAA. That's a nice way of saying it violates the plain language of the act, but they think they'll get away with it. Their blanket ban on 8 hours clearly violates the plain language of the act and would be struck down by a court.
kthomas likes this.
Ari is offline  
Old Dec 11, 18, 12:12 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: PIT to MSP to PIT; repeat
Programs: Delta, United, AA, Jet Blue .... Whichever is Cheapest
Posts: 1,476
anthropomorphism - the attribution of human characteristics or behavior to a god, animal, or object.

Since when do animals use a “bathroom”? Animals defecate and urinate where they are trained to. Few are trained to use a “bathroom”.
RRDD is offline  
Old Dec 11, 18, 12:21 pm
  #14  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 83,931
Originally Posted by RRDD View Post
anthropomorphism - the attribution of human characteristics or behavior to a god, animal, or object.

Since when do animals use a “bathroom”? Animals defecate and urinate where they are trained to. Few are trained to use a “bathroom”.
Guilty as charged. I was trying to be somewhat delicate in describing animals' behavior and bodily functions.

However, I have seen animals use "bathrooms" = lavatories on flights, and I would prefer this to seeing the animal just lift a leg or squat in the cabin. Of course, I don't know what actually happens in those bathrooms = lavatories. A few animals have apparently been trained to use toilets and more to use (human supplied) "puppy pads" or equivalent when they need to urinate or deficate.
kthomas and strickerj like this.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Old Dec 11, 18, 1:21 pm
  #15  
Ari
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 10,996
Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
I suspect - as FlyerCO does not - that Delta has had a lot of lawyers parse the relevant regs rather diligently.

Example: prohibiting ES animals on long-haul. The CFR allows carriers to set more rigorous standards on flights over eight hours. Can anyone reasonably affirm that the ESA dog 'won't do his business' on a flight that long? No? That's Delta's in for prohibiting them.
Sure, If the dog has been trained to hold it for 12 hours at home and fluid and food intake was managed before the flight then I don't see the issue. My dog (not an emotional support animal) used to tire himself out on long walks (runs) and sleep for like 10-12 hours straight right after. I'm sure I could have trained him to hold it for 12 hours if I tried. If service animals can be trained to hold it for 12 hours, so can ESA's. It is a violation of the plain language of the CFR. One can debate the merits of the policy, but the CFR is clear. If the CFR intended to prohibit ESA's on flights over 8 hours, it would have done so rather than made the requirements more rigorous.
Ari is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread