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Delta Bans Puppies and Kittens as Service/Support Animals

Delta Bans Puppies and Kittens as Service/Support Animals

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Old Dec 30, 18, 1:38 pm
  #151  
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pvn, unfortunately for those who need them, those who don't have hurt all.

flyerCO, I have been called by American Air and they have asked me details. They have specific criteria. YOu are correct, the ADA specifially forbids asking any questions of diagnosis, etc, The ACA does not. Airlines have been tougher after incidences of poop and urine on seat, etc. The ADA definition for a service animal means that they have been trained for a specific act. As we discussed the ACA does not. And it does not say which "mental illness" is required for an ESA. But if you are flying with one, good luck and let us know what happens - not your interpretation of the law or disagreement with AA's interpretation. I am sure that there will be a court case. I flew ATL > GVA this week which is 5 min longer than 8 hours to connection in Amsterdam and they would not let a woman on with her ESA with a "I'm a lawyer and I am going to sue you response"
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Old Dec 30, 18, 2:37 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
I'll believe what I want about these animals, based on "preponderance of evidence" if you wish.

And this is a major issue: People believe all sorts of things, but where exactly are you finding a "preponderance of evidence" about the majority of them being "fake." Can you actually point to any evidence at all?

(and again, reiterating pvn's point that there's actually no such thing as a "fake" esa, unless we're talking about a stuffed animal)
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Old Dec 30, 18, 2:42 pm
  #153  
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Originally Posted by Zurick View Post
pvn, unfortunately for those who need them, those who don't have hurt all.
no, what's hurt all is the authoritarian nosey busybodies getting all bent out of shape about "fake" animals when in many cases they don't even know what an ESA is, complaining about every dog they see, assuming anyone with a visible disability is a faker. Those are the people causing trouble. People who need these animals have enough problems in their lives, and these nosey jerks are making their lives even harder by demanding more and more of them.
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Old Dec 30, 18, 3:24 pm
  #154  
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Originally Posted by pvn View Post
... People who need these animals have enough problems in their lives, and these nosey jerks are making their lives even harder by demanding more and more of them.
this has certainly been mentioned before, but imo a significant part of the problem is the number (large, and growing) of people who have seized upon the reluctance of customer-facing airline employees to question anyone bringing an animal be it a legitimate service animal, a legitimate ESA, or a pet masquerading as either on board

regardless of how well-intentioned any customer service policy is with respect to the greater good of safety/comfort for all passengers, the emotional element of enforcement leads to a very risk-averse environment in terms of social media backlash
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Old Dec 31, 18, 6:30 am
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Interesting in Europe on the Eurostar only a seeing or hearing dog is allowed. Otherwise you have to go by car on the train with the dog inside. As Europe and England drive on opposite sides of the street, you cannot rent a car either but need to hire a limo. From Paris to London costs about $1000
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Old Dec 31, 18, 7:02 am
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Amazingly, the US is not the EU and the laws differ from country to country.
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Old Dec 31, 18, 9:45 am
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Originally Posted by Zurick View Post
Interesting in Europe on the Eurostar only a seeing or hearing dog is allowed. Otherwise you have to go by car on the train with the dog inside. As Europe and England drive on opposite sides of the street, you cannot rent a car either but need to hire a limo. From Paris to London costs about $1000
You could take your own car on the train for the dog, couldn't you? AFAIK it's still legal to drive an EU car in the UK and vv even though the steering wheel would of course be on the wrong side.
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Old Dec 31, 18, 11:57 am
  #158  
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I flew PIT/LGA on Saturday morning <on Republic>. I was in 3A. The pax in 3C/D had a dog, and, 2C/D had a big cat.

I didn't see any ESA vests, it just seemed a little odd for them to be so close.

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Old Dec 31, 18, 12:04 pm
  #159  
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It sounds like they weren't kept in carriers. Were they loose in the cabin?
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Old Dec 31, 18, 12:14 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
It sounds like they weren't kept in carriers. Were they loose in the cabin?
Well, the FA saw the cat at the owner's feet during pushback, and told her to put it in the carrier. The dog was at the owner's feet, but, a little bit more under the seat in front, so, the FA might not have seen it. Both were EXTREMELY well behaved.
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Old Dec 31, 18, 12:33 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
IMO every animal that isn't obviously being used by a blind person as a seeing eye dog gives me reason to doubt that any service animal or ESA claim is real, although I admit that some are much more obviously not real than others. Distrust and verify.
You must have a cat.

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Few people would have pets if the pet didn't provide some measure of support and companionship
Maybe not?

Most cats are jerks. I have a cat... I love it, but it is a jerk.

I am doubtful of anyone claiming a cat is an ESA.

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Old Dec 31, 18, 2:32 pm
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ESAs aren't required to wear vests
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Old Dec 31, 18, 2:52 pm
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Originally Posted by pvn View Post
ESAs aren't required to wear vests
If you're referring to my post just above, I just threw that in. It was just an observation. For all I know, they may have both been paid pets in the cabin. I heard once that the number of pets in the cabin are limited, and I thought they would be separated by more than one row.
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Old Dec 31, 18, 4:39 pm
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Originally Posted by jdrtravel View Post
...but where exactly are you finding a "preponderance of evidence" about the majority of them being "fake." Can you actually point to any evidence at all?...
Here's an article from Psychology Today from 4 1/2 year ago: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...rowing-problem. "Service Animal Scams- A Growing Problem. "

The airlines themselves have reported a tremendous increase in animals in the cabin, and problems with animals in the cabin.

You could also search "fake esa certificates" or something similar and get a wealth of news articles, reports, etc., from a wide variety of sources.
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Old Dec 31, 18, 5:59 pm
  #165  
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Originally Posted by ULDB65 View Post
The airlines themselves have reported a tremendous increase in animals in the cabin, and problems with animals in the cabin.
neither of these are evidence of how many are "fake"
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