Question re DL Award Rules

Reply

Old Dec 6, 18, 1:25 am
  #1  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oakland, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS MVPG75K,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,SPG Plat,HH Gold,Hyatt Expl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,217
Question Question re DL Award Rules

Searching at the DL site, I've found some decent business class award rates for LON-SFO on DL, as well as award availability at what I believe is the lowest business class rate (25K miles) for AMS-LON on KLM. But nothing inexpensive (miles-wise) comes up in searching for AMS-SFO business awards as one trip. A couple of questions:

1. Am I correct in assuming that I can't get DL to combine these two itineraries into one award booking, for the cost of only LON-SFO?
2. Assuming that I can't combine the two awards, could I nevertheless link the two award tickets so that if something goes wrong with AMS-LON I'm protected for LON-SFO?

Thanks for any help.
Thunderroad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 5:30 am
  #2  
LBJ
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 12,456
No you can't just add on segments and expect it price the same as DL uses married segment logic on awards. Linking is just a notation, you can't combine PNR's. Note that LHR-SFO flight is operated by VS, not DL. With AF/KL/VS/DL relationship I suspect you would be protected in the event of delays, but I don't think there is anything that explicitly guarantees it.

Last edited by LBJ; Dec 6, 18 at 5:38 am
LBJ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 8:30 am
  #3  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 37,745
You are at the mercy of VS if you no show for its flight. I would not be quite so sanguine about rebooking.
Often1 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 8:33 am
  #4  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 75,075
If it's a DL ticket, would DL rebook the OP at LHR? Or would OP be at the mercy of VS as they would "own" the ticket at that point.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 10:40 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MSP
Programs: DL Gold, 1 MM
Posts: 862
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
If it's a DL ticket, would DL rebook the OP at LHR? Or would OP be at the mercy of VS as they would "own" the ticket at that point.
I traveled on two tickets MSP - AMS and AMS - STR. The Delta agent in MSP checked my luggage through and even printed the boarding pass for the second flight. The first ticket was bought from Delta, the second from KLM. Though not sure what would have happened if I had missed the connection.
drminn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 11:20 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 45
what would happen the other way around? Price for US-AMS is the same as US-AMS-EU and I'm not sure if the 8h layover in AMS would be enough for +1 to see the city. So I'm thinking of just booking US-AMS-EU and then decide a couple weeks before departure if we want to stay longer in AMS or not. Can the helpdesk cancel the last segment or should I just do a no-show?
Moootz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 12:33 pm
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oakland, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS MVPG75K,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,SPG Plat,HH Gold,Hyatt Expl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,217
Thanks for the useful advice, folks. I suspected that I couldn't combine the two award tix for the price of one, but it's good to get that confirmed.

Originally Posted by Moootz View Post
what would happen the other way around? Price for US-AMS is the same as US-AMS-EU and I'm not sure if the 8h layover in AMS would be enough for +1 to see the city. So I'm thinking of just booking US-AMS-EU and then decide a couple weeks before departure if we want to stay longer in AMS or not. Can the helpdesk cancel the last segment or should I just do a no-show?
I suspect you're better off doing a no-show, since you could incur penalty fees for changing your itinerary. (Though OTOH be aware that if your US-AMS flight gets canceled/seriously delayed, DL could put you on another flight that doesn't go through AMS but gets you to your final EU destination.) But better to go with the advice from the DL experts here.

As for stopping over in AMS itself, though, the city is worth far more time than the de facto four-hour visit (once you take travel time to and from the airport, not to mention storing you cabin luggage at the airport if that's possible) or even an eight-hour visit would provide.
Thunderroad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 3:29 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NYC
Programs: Delta DM
Posts: 1,012
I think you have received some incorrect advice. While it is true that Delta now prices using married segment logic, that isn't always the case with partners. If you are looking at a wholly partner operated itinerary (which is available only at a low level or not at all), you can add in segments, have the agent reprice and it will come out as an even exchange.

About two weeks ago, I confirmed a business class award on KL using DL miles from AMS to CPT. (65k for the redemption). It took me a few weeks to figure out what where I wanted to stop over in Europe before South Africa. I decided on VCE. So, I called, asked for the VCE-AMS segments to be added to the itinerary. They were sold into the PNR, it was repriced, and for zero additional miles the ticket was reissued. As another data point, searching VCE-CPT displayed no results.

You might be in a different pickle here since you're mixing carriers. Maybe book the SFO-LHR. Then call to ask to add the segment and see if it will reprice at a low level all the way through. If it doesn't, you still have 24 hours to cancel without penalty.
iflyalexair is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 3:40 pm
  #9  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oakland, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS MVPG75K,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,SPG Plat,HH Gold,Hyatt Expl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,217
Originally Posted by iflyalexair View Post
I think you have received some incorrect advice. While it is true that Delta now prices using married segment logic, that isn't always the case with partners. If you are looking at a wholly partner operated itinerary (which is available only at a low level or not at all), you can add in segments, have the agent reprice and it will come out as an even exchange.

About two weeks ago, I confirmed a business class award on KL using DL miles from AMS to CPT. (65k for the redemption). It took me a few weeks to figure out what where I wanted to stop over in Europe before South Africa. I decided on VCE. So, I called, asked for the VCE-AMS segments to be added to the itinerary. They were sold into the PNR, it was repriced, and for zero additional miles the ticket was reissued. As another data point, searching VCE-CPT displayed no results.

You might be in a different pickle here since you're mixing carriers. Maybe book the SFO-LHR. Then call to ask to add the segment and see if it will reprice at a low level all the way through. If it doesn't, you still have 24 hours to cancel without penalty.
Thanks very much for this. I've been checking out so many permutations on both DL and VS awards that right now I have to revisit them to see if any fall within this category.

One question for you or others: Might using DL miles and combining VS and KL award flights in this way qualify for this no-additional-mileage charge benefit?
Thunderroad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 3:46 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL DM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime GE), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 6,016
Originally Posted by Thunderroad View Post
Thanks very much for this. I've been checking out so many permutations on both DL and VS awards that right now I have to revisit them to see if any fall within this category.

One question for you or others: Might using DL miles and combining VS and KL award flights in this way qualify for this no-additional-mileage charge benefit?
It's not a benefit, just correct pricing. If the routing is valid and within MPM, theoretically you can have up to 8 SkyTeam airlines on an RT itinerary, as you can have up to 8 flights. The operating carrier of each segment shouldn't matter and hasn't historically mattered, though now as of late it does and for the last two years or so DL is insisting (sometimes, not always) that the route must be published (i.e. available as a through fare, vs. broken fare, on revenue ticket) to be bookable as award. As VS is not ST, if the VS + KL routing is not available for booking via VS or KL, DL may very well say that it can be only additive as it's not published as a through fare by either carrier. That has been an argument used by DL more and more as of late, and why award routing that was available before now no longer being available.
RealHJ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 3:58 pm
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oakland, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS MVPG75K,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,SPG Plat,HH Gold,Hyatt Expl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,217
Originally Posted by RealHJ View Post
It's not a benefit, just correct pricing. If the routing is valid and within MPM, theoretically you can have up to 8 SkyTeam airlines on an RT itinerary, as you can have up to 8 flights. The operating carrier of each segment shouldn't matter and hasn't historically mattered, though now as of late it does and for the last two years or so DL is insisting (sometimes, not always) that the route must be published (i.e. available as a through fare, vs. broken fare, on revenue ticket) to be bookable as award. As VS is not ST, if the VS + KL routing is not available for booking via VS or KL, DL may very well say that it can be only additive as it's not published as a through fare by either carrier. That has been an argument used by DL more and more as of late, and why award routing that was available before now no longer being available.
Even though this news is not good, this is good to know. Thanks.
Thunderroad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 4:02 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: CDG (formerly SEA and NRT)
Programs: DL DM, Hyatt Platinum, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,147
Originally Posted by RealHJ View Post
It's not a benefit, just correct pricing. If the routing is valid and within MPM, theoretically you can have up to 8 SkyTeam airlines on an RT itinerary, as you can have up to 8 flights. The operating carrier of each segment shouldn't matter and hasn't historically mattered, though now as of late it does and for the last two years or so DL is insisting (sometimes, not always) that the route must be published (i.e. available as a through fare, vs. broken fare, on revenue ticket) to be bookable as award. As VS is not ST, if the VS + KL routing is not available for booking via VS or KL, DL may very well say that it can be only additive as it's not published as a through fare by either carrier. That has been an argument used by DL more and more as of late, and why award routing that was available before now no longer being available.
One odd thing Iíve routinely seen the last couple of years is the following non-published fares offered as awards:

VS SEA-LHR connecting to AF LHR-CDG

It is impossible to buy a revenue ticket for that route from DL, VS, or AF. But no problem booking an award for it with straight through(non-additive) pricing.
SEA-Flyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 4:11 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NYC
Programs: Delta DM
Posts: 1,012
I just pulled the fare rules of a SEA-LHR that's VS operated and would be ticketed in G for 120k RDMs. Here's what it has to say about flight application:

Flight Application

THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING ANY VS FLIGHT. THE FARE COMPONENT MUST INCLUDE TRAVEL VIA TRANSATLANTIC SECTORS ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING ANY VS FLIGHT. AND THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING ANY AE FLIGHT ANY AF FLIGHT ANY AM FLIGHT ANY AR FLIGHT ANY AZ FLIGHT ANY CI FLIGHT ANY CZ FLIGHT ANY DL FLIGHT ANY FM FLIGHT ANY G3 FLIGHT ANY GA FLIGHT ANY KE FLIGHT ANY KL FLIGHT ANY KQ FLIGHT ANY ME FLIGHT ANY MF FLIGHT ANY MU FLIGHT ANY OK FLIGHT ANY RO FLIGHT ANY SU FLIGHT ANY SV FLIGHT ANY TN FLIGHT ANY UX FLIGHT ANY VA FLIGHT ANY VN FLIGHT ANY VS FLIGHT ANY 9W FLIGHT ANY WS FLIGHT.

So, you might be able to combine a VS to KL if there's a valid published fare from Origin to Destination.
iflyalexair is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 7, 18, 12:27 am
  #14  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL DM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime GE), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 6,016
Originally Posted by SEA-Flyer View Post
One odd thing I’ve routinely seen the last couple of years is the following non-published fares offered as awards:

VS SEA-LHR connecting to AF LHR-CDG

It is impossible to buy a revenue ticket for that route from DL, VS, or AF. But no problem booking an award for it with straight through(non-additive) pricing.
That used to be the beauty of award tix before. Anything, as long as within MPM, was bookable if the flights are available. Now it's less so, but definitely the published fare requirement is spotty and not consistent. That's the one thing always consistent about Delta: the inconsistency. Enjoy it while it lasts. It may not be available much longer. Or may. Impossible to know.
RealHJ is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: