DL announces USA's first biometric airport terminal : ATL F
Feb 19, 2019, 4:59 am
#31
Join Date: Feb 2016
Programs: DL DM, SPG Plat 100/LT Gold, Marriott Plat, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,988
Yes, opting out is possible. I have personally done it. You just don't look at the camera and say "I'm opting out, can you please scan my BP the old fashioned way"?
They ask you to step aside for a moment while an agent checks your passport but it's otherwise fine and problem free.
Feb 19, 2019, 6:45 am
#32
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: DL DM/MM
Posts: 2,265
I assume they got it from a combo of your passport photo plus previous photos CBP has from you
Yes, opting out is possible. I have personally done it. You just don't look at the camera and say "I'm opting out, can you please scan my BP the old fashioned way"?
They ask you to step aside for a moment while an agent checks your passport but it's otherwise fine and problem free.
Yes, opting out is possible. I have personally done it. You just don't look at the camera and say "I'm opting out, can you please scan my BP the old fashioned way"?
They ask you to step aside for a moment while an agent checks your passport but it's otherwise fine and problem free.
Feb 19, 2019, 6:59 am
#33
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Formerly at PIT, now planted near MSP.
Programs: No flights since April 2019 (Medical Issues). Lost all my status.
Posts: 1,483
I had a GA tell me that I had the wrong type of Visa for my flight to Brazil. I told her that was strange, because it’s the same Visa that had been accepted four times previously upon entry into Brazil. She shrugged and said “Good Luck”, and let me pass. I wonder if she was playing dumb as part of the security checks?
Feb 19, 2019, 7:04 am
#34
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NJ
Programs: DL DM, Marriott Plat
Posts: 866
I've used this twice now in ATL, once for ATL-GRU and once for ATL-BZE. The quickness with which the system recognized me, even when I wasn't doing a perfect look at the camera, really caught me off guard.
One thing that surprised me is the fact that they don't even check to see if you have your passport when you board. Given the fines that some countries levy on airlines for pax that have to be returned at immigration upon arrival, I don't quite understand how/why DL is trusting that pax won't have lost their passport between check-in and boarding.
One thing that surprised me is the fact that they don't even check to see if you have your passport when you board. Given the fines that some countries levy on airlines for pax that have to be returned at immigration upon arrival, I don't quite understand how/why DL is trusting that pax won't have lost their passport between check-in and boarding.
Feb 19, 2019, 7:15 am
#35
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Posts: 100,368
I've used this twice now in ATL, once for ATL-GRU and once for ATL-BZE. The quickness with which the system recognized me, even when I wasn't doing a perfect look at the camera, really caught me off guard.
One thing that surprised me is the fact that they don't even check to see if you have your passport when you board. Given the fines that some countries levy on airlines for pax that have to be returned at immigration upon arrival, I don't quite understand how/why DL is trusting that pax won't have lost their passport between check-in and boarding.
One thing that surprised me is the fact that they don't even check to see if you have your passport when you board. Given the fines that some countries levy on airlines for pax that have to be returned at immigration upon arrival, I don't quite understand how/why DL is trusting that pax won't have lost their passport between check-in and boarding.
Don't most passports have a smart chip now? Plus, the passport and visa would have been viewed during the earlier document check at the airport, so the system would just need a sensor to verify that the person whose face is being scanned indeed seems to be carrying his/her passport.
As an experiment if someone is traveling together, one of them could try giving his/her passport to the traveling companion and having the companion board farther back (not very near the person) in the line so see whether something beeps or a GA asks to see the passport.
As an experiment if someone is traveling together, one of them could try giving his/her passport to the traveling companion and having the companion board farther back (not very near the person) in the line so see whether something beeps or a GA asks to see the passport.
Feb 19, 2019, 10:50 am
#36
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: DL, Hilton, National
Posts: 840
I was weirded out when I boarded a flight in SYD, on QF, via facial scan. I had a paper boarding pass from checking in at the F lounge, and went through security that way too. But when I got to the gate, I walked right up to the gate and never showed a boarding pass or passport, and heard them say, "Welcome aboard, Mr.... as the gate opened for me to pass" Very strange, particularly since I'm not a QF regular and wasn't in the US.
Feb 19, 2019, 10:54 am
#37
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I don't see the point of this as the passenger still needs to look at the boarding pass or whatever to check the seat assignment and to prove what seat is assigned when (not if) a seat poacher is encountered.
Personally, I find using CLEAR to enter the SC to be much more useful as it does remove the need to fumble for boarding pass, photo ID, and possibly membership card or credit card.
Personally, I find using CLEAR to enter the SC to be much more useful as it does remove the need to fumble for boarding pass, photo ID, and possibly membership card or credit card.
Feb 19, 2019, 11:43 am
#38
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: DL, Hilton, National
Posts: 840
In SCs, am I the only one who ends up standing there trying to get CLEAR to read my finger prints for a ridiculously long time? Half the time the agent says it isn't working, or "try again..." until I get out my boarding pass.
Feb 19, 2019, 9:37 pm
#39
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Posts: 100,368
What most SC (and CLEAR) agents don't seem to know is that the standard GE fingerprint reader trick seems to also work in the CLEAR devices: rub your forehead with your fingers first in order to get a bit of oil on your fingers, then try to use the scanner.
Feb 20, 2019, 2:48 am
#40
Join Date: May 2015
Location: ATL
Programs: DL DM, GOES
Posts: 711
Feb 20, 2019, 3:33 am
#41
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.7MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,944
I assume they got it from a combo of your passport photo plus previous photos CBP has from you
Yes, opting out is possible. I have personally done it. You just don't look at the camera and say "I'm opting out, can you please scan my BP the old fashioned way"?
They ask you to step aside for a moment while an agent checks your passport but it's otherwise fine and problem free.
Yes, opting out is possible. I have personally done it. You just don't look at the camera and say "I'm opting out, can you please scan my BP the old fashioned way"?
They ask you to step aside for a moment while an agent checks your passport but it's otherwise fine and problem free.
I wonder if there’s an opt out for that part, and if not, if GDPR could be used to our benefit to create one.
Feb 20, 2019, 8:34 am
#42
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: DL DM, UA Gold, Alaska MVP, Bonvoy (lol) Ambassador
Posts: 2,994
Unfortunately, the part I object to is the *storage* of my biometric information by Delta. They’ve already been compromised once in the course of me traveling with them, and I don’t trust them to hold credentials about me that can’t be revoked. Its not the at the gate opt out that matters, it’s the data collection at checkin/passport scan.
I wonder if there’s an opt out for that part, and if not, if GDPR could be used to our benefit to create one.
)
Feb 20, 2019, 10:52 am
#44
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: RDU
Programs: DL DM, HHonors Diamond, Marriott Platinum, etc etc etc
Posts: 2,341
At least in this exercise, Delta does not store of process your biometric data. This is a government-run program that Delta (for some reason) voluntarily participates in to the detriment of their customers. All photo processing and storage is done by the CBP/DHS (not that I trust them either of course )
)No way DL is doing this "out of the goodness of their hearts" without some financial incentive.
Feb 20, 2019, 10:56 am
#45
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: DL DM, UA Gold, Alaska MVP, Bonvoy (lol) Ambassador
Posts: 2,994
One can argue about whether this matters (your face is essentially public) but it would be disingenuous to say that the CBP/DHS is not storing a picture of you every time you board.
edit: just to avoid making unsourced claims, see this study from several years back. The amount of detail stored in templates and reverse engineering approaches have grown since the publication of this document, so the reconstructions would be even more accurate today (and I believe this particular attack is actually using a 'black box' constraint - i.e., the algorithm itself is not known, only the match performance of it - having the algorithm details like the CBP does would make it even easier).
Last edited by ethernal; Feb 20, 2019 at 11:11 am
