Delta (confirmed) adds 10 more A330-900NEO
Nov 14, 2018, 5:49 pm
#16
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Or both plane manufacturers could have really good products and airlines can pick the one that's right for them and the fanboys of a certain plane brand could accept that certain airlines may not pick their favorites. DL has made $17B since 2015, United $15B. They both are obviously making decent decisions right now.
Last edited by bergamini; Nov 14, 2018 at 8:45 pm
Nov 14, 2018, 5:49 pm
#17
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The poster you are replying to does. The Airbus hate is off-the-charts. Any mention of Airbus and he's frothing at the mouth. This A330 thread has already become about the 797... Don't bother feeding him, nothing good will come of it.
Nov 14, 2018, 5:57 pm
#18
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Is anyone making money flying US to Asia right now? When one can get a a flight BOS to SIN leaving TOMORROW (11/15) for $1,037, and leaving Monday (11/19) for $793, I can't imagine a 787, A350, Soyuz Rocket, a hang glider, or any other machine capable of flight making the difference on profitability on TPAC routes right now.
And just to show that's not an outlier, I'm grabbing some random US cities and Asian cities leaving 11/19 and back 11/23
BDL/PVG - 1 stop - $602 on AC
PBI/BKK - 2 stops - $980 on UA/HK
MSY/MNL - 2 stops $1,208 on CX
MCI/KUL - 2 stops $1,124 DL/KE
LAX/DPS - 2 stops $456 MF
SFO/PEK - non stop - $514 UA
PDX/HAN - 2 stops $799 AA
I understand that this isn't the peak season to many of those destination and it's just one day, but it's pretty consistent that one can fly to much of Asia for not a lot.
Airlines may be able to make it up with ancillary fees or cargo, but to me at least I doubt the 787 is the key to TPAC success.
From the perspective of the DL/UA/AA, they need their JV's in Asia to work much more like their JV's in Europe. There is just too much TPAC capacity to have anyone make consistent money.
And just to show that's not an outlier, I'm grabbing some random US cities and Asian cities leaving 11/19 and back 11/23
BDL/PVG - 1 stop - $602 on AC
PBI/BKK - 2 stops - $980 on UA/HK
MSY/MNL - 2 stops $1,208 on CX
MCI/KUL - 2 stops $1,124 DL/KE
LAX/DPS - 2 stops $456 MF
SFO/PEK - non stop - $514 UA
PDX/HAN - 2 stops $799 AA
I understand that this isn't the peak season to many of those destination and it's just one day, but it's pretty consistent that one can fly to much of Asia for not a lot.
Airlines may be able to make it up with ancillary fees or cargo, but to me at least I doubt the 787 is the key to TPAC success.
From the perspective of the DL/UA/AA, they need their JV's in Asia to work much more like their JV's in Europe. There is just too much TPAC capacity to have anyone make consistent money.
My willingness to be abused by SkyTeam airlines for miles is crazy high, and even I haven’t been able to bring myself to take advantage of one of these 38-hour-total trips. Maybe someday I’ll take advantage of the opportunity to see Xiamen, but these flights are timed so poorly they aren’t serious competition for connecting traffic - just south China O&D.
The rest of your examples stand, or course - just wanted to fall out this particular data point.
Nov 14, 2018, 6:17 pm
#19
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An order of ten really isn't indicative of anything strategic. Well, maybe bargain-hunting. It's a type already on order. Delta has 150 widebodies, about 40 of which are more than 20 years old, and another ~45 hitting that mark within five years. These will have the range to do any DL U.S. hub to all of Europe, LAX/SEA to East Asia, and ATL/DTW/JFK to all of S America. DL has the free cash flow to pay for them outright. This is a measured, prudent choice.
Nov 14, 2018, 6:50 pm
#20
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An order of ten really isn't indicative of anything strategic. Well, maybe bargain-hunting. It's a type already on order. Delta has 150 widebodies, about 40 of which are more than 20 years old, and another ~45 hitting that mark within five years. These will have the range to do any DL U.S. hub to all of Europe, LAX/SEA to East Asia, and ATL/DTW/JFK to all of S America. DL has the free cash flow to pay for them outright. This is a measured, prudent choice.
Nov 14, 2018, 7:07 pm
#21
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An order of ten really isn't indicative of anything strategic. Well, maybe bargain-hunting. It's a type already on order. Delta has 150 widebodies, about 40 of which are more than 20 years old, and another ~45 hitting that mark within five years. These will have the range to do any DL U.S. hub to all of Europe, LAX/SEA to East Asia, and ATL/DTW/JFK to all of S America. DL has the free cash flow to pay for them outright. This is a measured, prudent choice.
Nov 14, 2018, 7:10 pm
#22
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I'm guessing Boeing has a pretty good idea of what the 797 will be since the engine manufacturers will need specs for their proposals. My guess is P&W isn't even a consideration with their current troubles. Boeing can't depend on them. GE may also want to be the exclusive engine provider if market forecast is unknown. If GE can scale up the LEAP then they can probably get the 797 underway quickly.
Nov 14, 2018, 7:15 pm
#23
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Nov 14, 2018, 7:56 pm
#24
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Sounds like DL will not be getting the last 10 A359's but changing their order on the A330-900 to 35 (10 more than originally ordered) from what was just stated with N830MH. Am I understanding what you said then?
Nov 14, 2018, 8:07 pm
#25
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Delta could be waiting for an increase in the A359's MTOW. Then they could order them to replace the 777.
Nov 14, 2018, 8:18 pm
#26
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Given that they literally don't have board approval to do even detailed design of the plane, commitments is a bit of a strong word.
Regarding the A380, it was a failure, no doubt about it. It was a plane built for a future that never took shape: slot restrictions were alleviated by secondary airports that shifted away volume, four engined planes were completely superseded by twin engine due to the economics of it, and point to point has become an increasing focus even in international routes.
Airbus is still trying to keep it alive in hopes of the slot restriction issue resurfacing enough to make it work on some routes, but I don't see it happening.
Regarding the A380, it was a failure, no doubt about it. It was a plane built for a future that never took shape: slot restrictions were alleviated by secondary airports that shifted away volume, four engined planes were completely superseded by twin engine due to the economics of it, and point to point has become an increasing focus even in international routes.
Airbus is still trying to keep it alive in hopes of the slot restriction issue resurfacing enough to make it work on some routes, but I don't see it happening.
its a crazy word.
Of course the funny thing about it is that Rolls is probably the closest to being able to make a 797 engine with the UltraFan. This would cause readywhenyouare head's to spin.
Nov 14, 2018, 9:43 pm
#27
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Yields are indeed trash out of LA to Asia, but MF is maybe the wrong airline to cite as the reason why. They offer normal fares on routes where they are competitive, and these crazy $500-ish deals on connecting itineraries that involve a double hop XMN-SZX or similar with an 18+ hour layover.
My willingness to be abused by SkyTeam airlines for miles is crazy high, and even I haven’t been able to bring myself to take advantage of one of these 38-hour-total trips. Maybe someday I’ll take advantage of the opportunity to see Xiamen, but these flights are timed so poorly they aren’t serious competition for connecting traffic - just south China O&D.
The rest of your examples stand, or course - just wanted to fall out this particular data point.
Nov 15, 2018, 1:39 am
#28
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Delta bought 10 Airbus A330neo?!
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/airbu...--finance.html
Nice! Big fan of Airbus and this would be a good replacement for 757 and 767...
Nice! Big fan of Airbus and this would be a good replacement for 757 and 767...
Nov 15, 2018, 1:50 am
#29
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