wlau

I just finished my first Korean Air partner flight involving a segment serviced by sister airline Jin Air. Jin Air is a LCC but Korean Air sell flights from ICN to rest of Asia by combining it with a regular KE flight that cross the Pacific. Jin Air has intra-Asia routes similar to DL's cancelled flights from NRT, so this might be how things will become. I found a slew of issues that you best avoid this type of connection if you can help it. Clearly, the KE/LJ pairing just started to show up for DL and US flights and may be things haven't been fully ironed out... At it stands, it's one the WORST transfer experience I have had in the last 10 years...

1) No lounge access when connecting at ICN - when arriving at ICN on KE flight and connecting onto LJ flight, you do not have lounge access. The rule goes by your next flight and LJ, even sold under KE flight number, does not have lounge access and there is no SkyClub in ICN for those of us also have membership.

2) No lounge access on your departing return flight - same rule of 1) applies in reverse direction, when you take a LJ flight to ICN and connect to a KE flight. No lounge access in that originating city, even it's coded with a KE flight number. I checked with both LJ and KE supervisor and both confirm no lounge access. You will have access to lounge once you arrive at ICN, but all your connecting time will be gone through the transfer process.

3) Very difficult connection at ICN - considering I am passing through ICN frequently these days, I am not a new to ICN, it's still a nightmare. LJ, even though a KE sister company, operates out of Terminal 1 and KE is in Terminal 2, so it's the longest way to connect between any 2 airlines in ICN. Unlike some SkyTeam partner airlines, which operate out of Concourse, LJ is all the way in T1 - the farthermost from T2. Signage out of T1 on how to get to T2 is almost non-existent, even at the "transfer" area, which are mainly designed to transfer to other flights in T1.

4) Again, nightmare'ish long connecting process - flights with a LJ segment cannot be checked in online, yet at departing airport, LJ cannot check you in on the KE flight, you must do that at ICN. Here are the steps I went through (was later told I did exactly everything right), which burned 1:40 hr of my 2 hr connecting time with me doing super brisk walk or even a bit of light running at times:
a) arrive at ICN T1 and walk quite a bit to the only marked transfer area, which is the farthermost from the LJ gates.
b) clear security at transfer area and emerge into T1 concourse - with no sign to shows you where to go to take the transit shuttle train
c) figure out your way to get to basement shuttle train station and take train to Concourse terminal
d) fumble through the exit/entry electronic gate - since you will not have boarding pass for your KE flight, you must enter the KE flight number on the scanner's touchscreen to verify and open the gate
e) reboard the adjacent train to go from Concourse to T2
f) clear security again and emerge into T2
g) trek ALL THE WAY to the only transfer desk on 4F - this is long long long walk across almost the entire T2
h) get your boarding pass from the agent - you will need to show your passport, and luggage claim check so they can make sure your bag will make the KE connecting flight
i) get out of the transfer desk and trek ALL THE WAY back to the opposite side of T2, where most of the TPAC KE/DL fights leave out of...

I complained about this process to the Transfer Desk Sky Priority agent and she agreed and said almost everyone complain about this. She is amazed I managed to find the transfer area and still have time to board my KE connecting flight. She doesn't understand why KE/LJ flights are sold on the same ticket with just 2 hours to connect.


5) Substandard experience on LJ - yes, it's a LCC, so you should expect very very stripped down service. Seats on the 777-200, is in 3-4-3 config, and is similar to the hard plastic slimline seat Frontier uses, except they cover the hard plastic with a clothes seat cover so it looks OK to your eyes. The moment you sit own, you will feel super hard seat back and seat bottom. Leg room is very limited. No IFE (expected) and no USB or AC charging outlet. They do however provide a small snack box (no meal) for the 2.5 hr flight, which consist of small pastry and small jello cup. Small cup of water is given but everything else is charged. Most everything has the KE feel but they repainted the plane and installed harder/tighter slimline seats. There is no hiding of its KE roots - even the wet wipe is in identical packaging as KE's.

All in all, my fitness band recorded over 10,000 steps taken during this transfer process and I was sweating while wearing shorts and t-shirt. It left me tired, thirsty and hungry. I barely had 5 or so min to go to the lounge to get some water and had to then get over to catch my KE flight, during which I was already near the tail-end of the boarding process.

Consider yourselves warned about taking any KE connecting flight involving Jin Air.

ethernal

For those not used to fitness trackers, 10,000 steps is about five miles depending on stride length.

Even by inter-carrier connection standards that sounds pretty painful.

Is there no way to do an online check-in of just the KE segment via their app or website? This sometimes works on multi-carrier itineraries (Delta's app will let you check into the Delta-specific flight even if you can't check in online on the first leg due to the multiple carriers - I just did this this past Thursday).

pvn

Are you accessing the lounge as a J passenger or as STE+?

Are the lounges at these intra-asian outstations run by KE directly or are they third party?

wlau

Most people know KE flights are difficult to online check-in as is, but if the flight involves LJ, you just cannot check online. I checked with the phone agent at both KE and LJ - their systems are not connected and KE system doesn't know if you actually checked in and/or boarded the LJ flight. Same logic apply in reverse that the LJ agent has no access to check you into the KE flight or print boarding pass of it.

This actually is common apparently, that's why I passed 2 security checkpoints and the train gates with no boarding pass..

wlau

STE+ in the case of this flight...

Intra-Asian outstation lounges are not KE-operated but they have ST airline operated lounge that KE contracts with. If it was a KE-operated flight, then you have lounge access but not on KE-coded Jin Air flights. I used the argument that my flight has all KE-coded segments and I have STE+, but that was no go...

pvn

If
* the lounge is ST operated
* you have ANY skyteam operated flight that day and
* you're STE+

then you are entitled to access. The ST-operated flight does NOT have to be from the airport you're currently located at. You need to report this to skyteam and to delta (assuming you have your STE+ status via DL). If the lounge isn't operated by KE but you have a KE-marketed/operated flight that day, I would report this to them as well.

You should also get access at ICN when connecting FROM a skyteam-operated flight, even if your connection is on a non-skyteam airline (you just have to have an onward flight, you can't use the lounge as an arrival lounge).

wlau

I argued all of your points and the answer is no. The key here is LJ is not a ST airline even thought KE is and sold a KE-coded flight on LJ... I guess I should complaint to ST then.

frankflieslots

i got into an argument with a diamond agent. i had an on option to fly on jin air to get into tokyo earlier but i told her i would not get my MQMs. she insisted i would and got a bit upset why i would not believe her. glad i did not do it and picked KE metal instead.

3Cforme

Unless Jin Air flights are being sold as DL-coded flights, IMHO, this doesn't belong in the Delta forum.

wlau

It belongs here for many reasons and it is being sold as a DL-coded flight. The point of this because this KE/LJ combo is to mimic the old DL NRT-connected flights to Asia. I didn't see this combo a few months ago and just showed up recently as a bookable option...

wlau

You nailed it! My admin selected the Jin Air option because it has the best schedule than that of KE-metal flights. She told me the cost is the same. I've done a lot of KE flights since May when they announced the JV. KE connect to KE usually has at least 4-5 or more hours at ICN, where as LJ connect to KE usually has only 2 hours connecting time. 4 plus hours of KE-KE which stay in Terminal 2, is too much time wasted but as I learned now that LJ-KE with 2 hours is not enough....

The KE flights leaving say TPE, HKG, PVG are very early, which may often have transportation challenges to the airport. The LJ flight leaving later in the morning and have much better schedules.

This is the sad sad state - LJ has better schedule but terrible connecting experience.

pvn

I totally believe that they will deny you but they're violating the rules. Definitely report it to skyteam. If you bought this as a DL ticket or if you have STE+ via DL, report it to them as well.

bobbybrown

7 more airlines are moving from T1 to T2 from today, but Jin air isn't one of them. All Skyteams except MU CZ VN are now at T2.

Wish you could take KE-metal. Which destination was it that bars KE-metal?

RealHJ

The whole T2 is a big debacle at ICN, IMO. Unnecessary and very poor and slow connections, no transfer desks for T1 airlines in T2 or vice versa, silly boarding pass reader that is useless as you can just look up and enter any flight # for the T1 to T2 train, slow (two train) process to change terminals while stopping at the satellite ("concourse"). All that is made worse by the fact that KE, de facto, doesn't do OLCI (it only works to generate a QR code boarding pass for domestic flights, never for any int'l flights ever in 10+ years).

Shouldn't take 1h40m, though. Earlier this year I had an OZ to KE connection, OZ flight was over 1h late, instead of 1h30m as planned, I only had some 35m connection. Made it no problem, as at least KE transfer desk, while a bit far from the train, is on the way to the gates from which KE aircraft depart, so it's on the way, but far from central, yes, and hidden away on the upper level. We had someone from OZ there to meet us and escort us through (asked for it aboard on the previous evening of departure, given how late the departure was), though frankly it made no difference, as the OZ person just walked with us - at a brisk pace, but that is all - and himself had never even been to T2 and was just looking at it all for the first time.

Transfer signage is poor and the whole T1 to T2 transfer, that is so commonly needed, is poorly designed. Really total lack of thought went into this at ICN. Whenever possible I connect in TPE nowadays and do my best to avoid ICN, it's just an impractical airport for connections now esp. But, if having to connect at ICN T1 to T2 or vice versa and it's less than 1 hour connection time, I suggest asking the arriving airline to have one of their ground crew at the gate on arrival to assist to "expedite" the transfer. I would think that someone more useful than the guy we had from OZ (polite and all, just not very practically minded) would go there with a buggy and at least drive you to the escalator down to the train, saving a few minutes. I asked, and was expecting, someone to drive us outside directly T1 from gate to T2. Didn't happen that time, but I would think should be possible if you ask for it timely for short connections, and would be much faster than than the long trek on both sides and the two trains. So for short cnx, just ask arriving airline to meet you at the gate for faster transfer to the other terminal.

My personal recommendation though is just to avoid ICN and fly via TPE whenever possible, if traveling on SkyTeam. Much better airport, still longish walks, but better, far better, superior lounges with good food (CI vs. KE or OZ, which are both really just sad nowadays), and CI is always a pleasure to fly on. On board food varies from good to so-so, but on the ground experience and transit much better at ICN.

wlau

For my admin, it wasn't the KE was barred for connection, it's the LJ flights were universally better scheduled to connection to either KE or DL flights back to the US. I am talking about TPE and HKG flights... They have under 2 hr connection, which you would think should be enough for most international gateway airport.

One of my other gripes that I didn't mentioned is the zero help from the T2 lounge staff (both East and West) for my request to print boarding - they sent me to the 4F transfer area which is a lot of walk and you have to kind of push forward through the sea of passengers. In previous similar transfer experiences, both Delta and China's lounge staff were happy to assist but the Korean Prestige lounge staff refuse to help print their own boarding pass.

Anyways, looks like LJ is removing the mid morning flight as it comes out of vacation season, leaving only one flight a day from both cities, hopefully I won't run into it again...