PM at MSP and Comfort +

Old Oct 6, 18, 2:05 pm
  #1  
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PM at MSP and Comfort +

Just to state a continuing frustration......three unexpected business trips next week and for all flights out of Msp.....as a PM forget even upgrade from E cannot even buy C+ ("sold out").....great product just PM status does work.....MCE on AA available so will fly the AA connections. I do not expect F UG's anymore but not getting a C+ seat questions how valuable PM is on Delta out of MSP
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Old Oct 6, 18, 3:25 pm
  #2  
 
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Not PM as I've only been an FO since 8/25, but of the several flights to/from MSP since then, I've been upgraded to C+ on all but one flight (CMH-MSP). I took myself off the C+ upgrade list due to only middle seats being available. I've also been upgraded to FC three times in the last 6 weeks and two of those were on flights to/from MSP. Just depends on the route and the day of the week.
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Old Oct 6, 18, 3:43 pm
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Did you expect DL to not sell all C+ seats, but hold some C+ for upgrades?
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Old Oct 6, 18, 3:49 pm
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No....
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Old Oct 6, 18, 4:11 pm
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How does being a PM affect whether or not C+ is still available for sale on your flight? It's not like a change in your status would change the fact that C+ was either sold out or filled with upgrades at the window before you were able to purchase your ticket. As a GM flying through MSP relatively often I haven't had an issue getting the C+ upgrades decently often, so it may be your particular routes or timing.
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Old Oct 6, 18, 6:06 pm
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Let's not pretend that C+ availability is not an issue. As a Diamond I only get C+ about 20-30% of the time and I usually book at least a week in advance. Here's a longer thread on the issue.
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Old Oct 6, 18, 6:33 pm
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The only way this ends is that nobody gets a freebie C+ seat until perhaps a few hours before departure. At that point, unsold C+ seats are allocated.

As to the notion that a for-profit business would not sell a quasi-premium product for which people are willing to pay, is astonishing.

The economy is on screech, many businesses will pay for C+ and that's the end of it. Maybe hope for another recession and those seats will open up.
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Old Oct 6, 18, 6:35 pm
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Originally Posted by ethernal View Post
Let's not pretend that C+ availability is not an issue. As a Diamond I only get C+ about 20-30% of the time and I usually book at least a week in advance. Here's a longer thread on the issue.
It's not an issue if you have any flexibility.

But if you are gonna fly the highest demand routes, at the highest demand times, they necessarily will be filled with lots of frequent flyers, and upgrades will be harder to come by.

I'm 100% on C+ at booking but can't remember the last time I actually flew C+ on DL thanks to F upgrades. Key is being booked more than 120 hours out.
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Old Oct 7, 18, 9:02 am
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
The only way this ends is that nobody gets a freebie C+ seat until perhaps a few hours before departure. At that point, unsold C+ seats are allocated.

As to the notion that a for-profit business would not sell a quasi-premium product for which people are willing to pay, is astonishing.

The economy is on screech, many businesses will pay for C+ and that's the end of it. Maybe hope for another recession and those seats will open up.
We all know that the few C+ seats Delta has are given primarily as upgrades. If it was from sales, they would increase the price so that they are not sold out a month in advance (just like they do with F and Y inventory). The reality is that Delta does not equip their planes with enough C+ seats relative to their competitors (e.g., United). Given this, On routes where Delta knows they are going to sell out of C+ weeks in advance, they should either restrict upgrades completely until day of departure or at least limit it to DMs.



I'm 100% on C+ at booking but can't remember the last time I actually flew C+ on DL thanks to F upgrades. Key is being booked more than 120 hours out.
A 120 hours out? The routes I fly sell out weeks in advance. And well over a month in advance if you're talking about a window or aisle C+ seat. The seats do not, for all intents and purposes, exist to me as a customer. I would even pay to upgrade to C+ but I'm not even given that option.
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Old Oct 7, 18, 9:18 am
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The issue here is the number of seats DL has available. Both AA and UA have more seats in their planes for C+.

Upgrades to F are simply impossible out of a hub unless you want to fly saturday night/sunday morning. Sometimes I see them mid week but that is completely luck. Hub captive sucks. Either you accept the crappy situation with the dominate carrier or you fly another carrier and switch planes. And with the airlines desire to maximize revenue yo have people like me to deal with - Former diamond who is nothing now. In an effort to win back my business DL bombards me with killer buy up opportunities when I fly DL. I can buy into F for almost nothing compared to the opportunities when I was diamond.

DL hubs seem to be super non-competitive for some reason. I am not sure why, but DTW, MSP and ATL are all horrible places to live if one wishes to fly DL and is not diamond.
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Old Oct 7, 18, 9:41 am
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
As to the notion that a for-profit business would not sell a quasi-premium product for which people are willing to pay, is astonishing.
I think this is the point here. I mean conceptually, after they are done selling they upgrade into seats that haven't sold. To expect a company to not take money in order to possibly give it away for free later is ludicrous. I mean I get it we all want to be rewarded for loyalty and one would expect perks/discounts the more you spend with a company. But if it is sold out, it is sold out, we need to have realistic expectations. Upgrades are a perk, when available, they aren't always available, even if you add more seats.
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Old Oct 7, 18, 9:51 am
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Originally Posted by defrosted View Post
I think this is the point here. I mean conceptually, after they are done selling they upgrade into seats that haven't sold. To expect a company to not take money in order to possibly give it away for free later is ludicrous. I mean I get it we all want to be rewarded for loyalty and one would expect perks/discounts the more you spend with a company. But if it is sold out, it is sold out, we need to have realistic expectations. Upgrades are a perk, when available, they aren't always available, even if you add more seats.
Except the absurdity is that Delta is giving away these seats on cheap tickets to lower statused members. My average ticket fare is around $1000 for domestic flights. When you buy a ticket when C+ is actually available, the average fare is more like $500 (sometimes even less) since they have to be bought a month out. If you want to talk about revenue maximization, one would think that the upgrade should go to the Diamond buying $1000-1200 tickets and not to the PM buying a $500 ticket.

The end consequence is that I end up flying UA or AA any time I can and either getting the free upgrade (UA) or buying the seat for an nominal fee AA - and pretty much universally the combined cost of the upgrade and original ticket is less than the price Delta charges for Y.
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Old Oct 7, 18, 9:57 am
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Originally Posted by FlyingBeanCounter View Post
Upgrades to F are simply impossible out of a hub unless you want to fly saturday night/sunday morning. Sometimes I see them mid week but that is completely luck. Hub captive sucks.
I respectfully disagree, they aren't impossible, you say so yourself. I got an F upgrade out of ATL the other day when I got only C+ upgrade on my original flight from a non hub to ATL. I think it has just as much to do with routes, timing and equipment (think competitive situations and load factors) than just departing from a hub. Southwest started actively going after BNA/ATL route, now equipment changed from md-88 to 757, all of a sudden I go from no upgrades on a Monday AM to a C+ upgrade. And even aforementioned F upgrade out if ATL as a Gold.... thanks Southwest!
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Old Oct 7, 18, 10:07 am
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Originally Posted by ethernal View Post
Except the absurdity is that Delta is giving away these seats on cheap tickets to lower statused members. My average ticket fare is around $1000 for domestic flights. When you buy a ticket when C+ is actually available, the average fare is more like $500 (sometimes even less) since they have to be bought a month out. If you want to talk about revenue maximization, one would think that the upgrade should go to the Diamond buying $1000-1200 tickets and not to the PM buying a $500 ticket.
I don't think I follow, are you saying they charge a diamond more in the same situation for the same ticket at the same time? If not then what I think I understand is you buy tickets when they are more expensive, that shouldn't exclude someone in advance buying a cheaper ticket because of supply and demand. How much you paid for your ticket doesn't have any bearing on upgrades.
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Old Oct 7, 18, 10:34 am
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Originally Posted by defrosted View Post
I respectfully disagree, they aren't impossible, you say so yourself. I got an F upgrade out of ATL the other day when I got only C+ upgrade on my original flight from a non hub to ATL. I think it has just as much to do with routes, timing and equipment (think competitive situations and load factors) than just departing from a hub. Southwest started actively going after BNA/ATL route, now equipment changed from md-88 to 757, all of a sudden I go from no upgrades on a Monday AM to a C+ upgrade. And even aforementioned F upgrade out if ATL as a Gold.... thanks Southwest!

That is the luck I mentioned.

GIve it time - DL will find a way to sell your upgrade. It is not DL specific, it is airlines in general. They know that people place an irrational value on the perceived status of first class. Op ups and other higher status fliers will end up eating those upgrades up from you shortly.

DL (and other airlines) have made it clear they want the maximum revenue from the plane no matter the consequence.
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