Wistful Longing for the B787
Oct 4, 2018, 7:05 am
#16
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I believe FedEx bought a big portion of the non-ETOPS sUA 757 fleet (with UA keeping the sUA PS 757 and the sCO 757 for TATL)
Oct 4, 2018, 7:17 am
#18
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Planespotters.net shows Delta with 111 757-200s - 11 of which are in charter config that Delta doesn't count in its fleet (see the relevant 10-Q filing). Planespotters shows FedEx with 119 757-200s - so, a few more than Delta's 752+753 combined.
Oct 4, 2018, 11:29 am
#19
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Agreed that Delta's route network would benefit from a plane capable of true long-and-thin, but I think that for the most part Delta feels that the 767 and A332 serves the "thin and long enough" role. A completely wild guess but there's probably only a half dozen or so routes that Delta feels like they can't profitably run that they could/would run if they had a 787.
The aging out of the 767 fleet is going to leave a much larger hole in Delta's route network, but one that the 787 is not really equipped to fill.
Obviously this is somewhat of a bet of fuel prices remaining in a tolerable range as at some point the 787's superior fuel burn per seat flips the economics of things.
With that said, as a passenger, I am somewhat thankful that Delta is not proliferating the 787 given the tight Y seating that plane offers.
The aging out of the 767 fleet is going to leave a much larger hole in Delta's route network, but one that the 787 is not really equipped to fill.
Obviously this is somewhat of a bet of fuel prices remaining in a tolerable range as at some point the 787's superior fuel burn per seat flips the economics of things.
With that said, as a passenger, I am somewhat thankful that Delta is not proliferating the 787 given the tight Y seating that plane offers.
Im betting on Boeing and Delta doing a deal like American/Boeing just did. Short term 788s that will bridge to the MOM. Delta could then either return those 787s to Boeing or shift them to other flying.
What probably wouldn't be around is the 350. The 787 would have replaced the 744 as NW originally planned. I'm not sure I see it in the fleet with the 787.
777 or no 777, flying domestic 764s 10x on ATL-MCO is still setting money on fire.
If Delta thought it had a strategy to make money on long-thin routes it would have 787s today. How many secondary TPAC routes did UA try and drop, only to refocus on domestic growth (by adding CR2s!) and reconfiguring 77As for 10-across domestic service? SFO-Xi'an is gone. SFO-Hangzhou is gone. Even longer, LAX-SIN is gone. If a TPAC destination can't work from UA@SFO it surely isn't going to work from SEA.
Having said all of that, I do agree with the general point. Delta can't even figure out how to fly to Hong Kong much less secondary China. A 787 order isn't magically going to mean a ton of long and thin flying. I do think it would be valuable for China and the possibly of adding flying (back) to places like HKG/TPE/BOM/DEL. It would also allow for routes to JV hubs like SLC-ICN or routes that badly need something smaller than the 777/359 like MSP-HND/ICN.
Delta has more 757s due to the 16 753s.
yes there was. It isn't the reason the airplanes were delayed (pilot pay was) but the pilots did have an issue with the crew rest. From what I remember they didn't fly over 12 hours till they were sent into mods for OHCRs in 2000.
1 of the ERs and all of the LRs came from the factory with overhead crew rest but the first 7 777s did not. They were modified with the TIMCO overhead crew rest in 2000 along with going from 2-5-2 in coach to 3-3-3
Oct 4, 2018, 12:50 pm
#20
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The A330 is much larger than the 767. I'm not sure why some people think the A330 is a replacement for them. Say goodbye to routes like IND-CDG, JFK-PSA, ATL-STR, etc. Delta can't even fill 767's in the off-season. The A330 is just way too much capacity.
Yes, Delta is definitely the odd man out on the 787. Everyone else loves them and continues to order more. Meanwhile no one seems to want the 330neo. But that just shows how good the relationship is between Airbus and Delta. Airbus has won 75% of Delta's orders over the last decade. That isn't going to change anytime soon. There will be no 787 or Boeing MOM in Delta colors. I'm sure Airbus can give one final upgrade to the A321neoLR for Delta.
Yes, Delta is definitely the odd man out on the 787. Everyone else loves them and continues to order more. Meanwhile no one seems to want the 330neo. But that just shows how good the relationship is between Airbus and Delta. Airbus has won 75% of Delta's orders over the last decade. That isn't going to change anytime soon. There will be no 787 or Boeing MOM in Delta colors. I'm sure Airbus can give one final upgrade to the A321neoLR for Delta.
Oct 4, 2018, 1:02 pm
#21
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1) Seat width in actual premium economy (not something Comfort+ esque) is going to be fine.
2) JL's kept all of their 787s at 2-4-2 in Y, and it's delightful.
Oct 5, 2018, 10:53 am
#22
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DL made a big deal over keeping their 777s 3-3-3 with the new config. Perhaps if they ever got 787s (doubtful) they'd differentiate and go with the 2-4-2, which would indeed be delightful. But that's probably wishful thinking...
Oct 5, 2018, 12:20 pm
#23
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I agree with the general thought here. Business in the dreamliner is great. The back... ehhh I don't want to do it. I also agree the 767/330 with the 2 seats on the side is a spectacular setup for those that have to fly in Y.
Real PE is a different story but that isn't a fair comparison.
Real PE is a different story but that isn't a fair comparison.
