Estimating the Diamond Medallion Population
Aug 26, 2018, 9:43 am
#31
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 277
It's so good, nearly 60K people participate. Why would it be a bad thing to have another published tier above DM, using their same calculation methodology? Why would it be a bad thing to not be forced to compete with large herd numbers?
I'm not seeing what deleterious effect such a tier -- one that can't be manipulated by CC spend -- would create.
I'm not seeing what deleterious effect such a tier -- one that can't be manipulated by CC spend -- would create.
So Delta’s highest public loyalty tier is in the neighborhood of only .02% of their flyers. But by flying at least an order of magnitude more than everybody else, we use up 2-3% of their seat miles.
So on any given plane you’d expect an average of 0-9 Diamonds, to a first approximation.
What’s the status you want against those other 8 people that you think Delta can economically offer? Or is it just very important that you be recognized as the most important customer on the plane?
[1]: https://news.delta.com/corporate-stats-and-facts
[2]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...lta-air-lines/
Aug 26, 2018, 9:57 am
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 10,034
No, I'm well aware of the $250K waiver. Like many others here, I exceeded that in Q1 of this year. For those who received the third MQM boost notice from Amex, that means you can now -- for the first time ever -- reach DM without having to fly a single mile, literally. Even for those who didn't receive the notice, you'd still be able to achieve DM by flying only 25K MQM which, in some instances, can happen in just two flights.
There should be NO MQD waiver(s) for higher tiers. That's my point. $250K is still too easy to reach for many. If I can do it so easily -- basically running what amounts to little more than a home-based business -- then so can others. It dilutes "Elite" status and cheats those who actually fly the miles and pay the dollars. So, why not create a published tier (i.e. not a mystical, arbitrary, invite-only tier -- which is fine, BTW) that TRULY rewards the people who pay Delta to spend countless hours inside their tubes. Enough with the CC shenanigans.
There should be NO MQD waiver(s) for higher tiers. That's my point. $250K is still too easy to reach for many. If I can do it so easily -- basically running what amounts to little more than a home-based business -- then so can others. It dilutes "Elite" status and cheats those who actually fly the miles and pay the dollars. So, why not create a published tier (i.e. not a mystical, arbitrary, invite-only tier -- which is fine, BTW) that TRULY rewards the people who pay Delta to spend countless hours inside their tubes. Enough with the CC shenanigans.
Aug 26, 2018, 10:25 am
#34
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: RDU
Programs: DL DM, HHonors Diamond, Marriott Platinum, etc etc etc
Posts: 2,341
I would estimate that most people here did not make it in Q1 and that an even smaller population of people here do not find it easy to spend $250k on one card per year. Especially when other cards offer much more lucrative points options.
Aug 26, 2018, 10:49 am
#35
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: LAS
Programs: DL PM, Honors Gold, Marriott Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 894
I've been saying this since they started the MQD nonsense. This is not a loyalty program, it's a rewards program - and basically an AMEX rewards program at that. If DL insists on keeping the credit card component, they should switch to something like AA has where you just get a set amount of MQD for $25k spend, and not a full waiver.
Aug 26, 2018, 10:59 am
#36
Join Date: May 2013
Location: DTW
Programs: AMEX, Ritz LT-Plat Prem, Hyatt Plat, SPG Plat, Hilton Diamond, Delta Plat, United Gold, Sixt Plat
Posts: 866
I've been saying this since they started the MQD nonsense. This is not a loyalty program, it's a rewards program - and basically an AMEX rewards program at that. If DL insists on keeping the credit card component, they should switch to something like AA has where you just get a set amount of MQD for $25k spend, and not a full waiver.
Aug 26, 2018, 11:11 am
#37
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Twin Cities
Programs: Delta DM MM, IHG Plat, Hilton DM, Marriott SE, Emerald EE, Oakdale Gun Club, NRA & GOA Life Member
Posts: 3,870
Honestly, that's irrelevant (and has been pointed out and discussed in previous threads). It's the fact that you can "achieve" the highest published "Elite Frequent Flyer" status Delta has to offer without having to fly a single mile.
That's little more than a sad irony or a cruel joke. Give Frequent Flyer elite status to the actual flyer. Delta would have to change nothing, but simply add a published tier that makes sense for those who actually Fly Delta Jets.
That's little more than a sad irony or a cruel joke. Give Frequent Flyer elite status to the actual flyer. Delta would have to change nothing, but simply add a published tier that makes sense for those who actually Fly Delta Jets.
It's so good, nearly 60K people participate. Why would it be a bad thing to have another published tier above DM, using their same calculation methodology? Why would it be a bad thing to not be forced to compete with large herd numbers?
I'm not seeing what deleterious effect such a tier -- one that can't be manipulated by CC spend -- would create.
I'm not seeing what deleterious effect such a tier -- one that can't be manipulated by CC spend -- would create.
Aug 26, 2018, 12:05 pm
#38
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.7MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,947
Notably, AC was planning on bringing it back in house and dumping Aeroplan; it’s not obvious what the independent company’s value was without the airline. So it’s possible that specific move was more a sketchy accounting maneuver to dump the mileage liability on unsuspecting investors, or it could also mean AC found they were missing having control over the loyalty aspect of the program. In any case, just a few days ago they reached a deal to re-acquire Aeroplan. Very strange soap opera.
It’ll be fascinating to see what a largely-DL and AFKL controlled VS does during their upcoming spinoff process... could provide some clues for future thinking around SkyMiles.
Aug 26, 2018, 12:25 pm
#39
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: DL DM, UA Gold, Alaska MVP, Bonvoy (lol) Ambassador
Posts: 2,994
Even if I put all of my travel spend on a Delta Amex card (which I wouldn't because it's a terrible rewards program) that would only net about 100-125K a year. And I doubt many people here are putting 150K in personal spend on their cards. Even among a crowd of affluent folks (which FlyerTalk certainly is), 125K-150K of after-tax non-mortgage, non-auto loan, non-retirement account savings is pretty significant and reflective of 500-750K+ in household income level (of course this could be higher/lower depending on saving proclivities). To hit it in Q1 would imply a $1.5M+ household income.. in which case just paying outright for an F ticket is a pretty trivial expense (if we're talking about upgrade competition).
Of course there are ways to game this via manufactured spend, but that is not exactly common either (and even MS is hard at the 250K level).
TheHorta loves to bring up the need for a higher tier. As someone that would qualify for this proposed "higher tier" (I"ll hit 200K+ MQM this year with well north of 30K spend), I just don't see the value to myself or (especially) Delta for a higher tier - especially when there is already a higher tier (Delta 360) - although admittedly Delta 360 is the worst high tier (UA's GS is far better for example).
Aug 26, 2018, 8:38 pm
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: IND
Programs: DL PM & 2MM™, Lifetime HHonors Diamond
Posts: 20,889
While I can't dispute any of the math here, a usually reliable source who may or may not have access to all of the data says that the DM numbers are quite a bit more than indicated here.
I find another tier silly. If that is a good idea. Why not 10 more tiers?
I think it is silly to think many will easily make the 250k waiver. I think it is WAY less than 10% of DMs but that is pure speculation on my part. Remember, not even every DM has the AMEX card to begin with.
I think most will make the MQD amount anyway....most being more than half....and I think it will be lot more than that but I have had that discussion here and some disagree.
I find another tier silly. If that is a good idea. Why not 10 more tiers?
I think it is silly to think many will easily make the 250k waiver. I think it is WAY less than 10% of DMs but that is pure speculation on my part. Remember, not even every DM has the AMEX card to begin with.
I think most will make the MQD amount anyway....most being more than half....and I think it will be lot more than that but I have had that discussion here and some disagree.
Aug 26, 2018, 8:38 pm
#42
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta Diamond (MM), Hilton Diamond, Avis President's Club
Posts: 873
Aug 26, 2018, 8:52 pm
#43
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 5,181
If someone sits at home and very rarely flies makes DM through AMEX MQMs the only advantages I can think of for this person are: (i) the ability to redeposit SM at no charge <T-72; (ii) getting through quicker on the phone; and maybe (iii) getting the benefit of the doubt in the resolution of a subjective grey area/rule because of his loyalty (i.e. a schedule change of <90 minutes). None of this should affect any other DM traveler’s life including their ability to get an upgrade.
Aug 26, 2018, 9:26 pm
#44
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: HSV
Programs: Bellevue Lifetime Premiere Mega Elite Supreme
Posts: 1,509
1) It doesn’t matter whether it affects other Diamonds or not. That’s irrelevant. It turns something ostensibly intended to be special into something trivial.
2) Why NOT have another tier? Once upon a time they stopped at Platinum. Who’s complaining now that there’s a new tier above Platinum?
3) Who does it hurt to have another published tier that can’t be diluted by credit card shenanigans?
4) The more tiers, the merrier. Have 200K/$24K, 325K/$39K and 525K/$63K tiers while keeping the D360 Pegasus. That’ll effectively end MQM rollover, so be it. I may not make the top tier, but I’d happily live with that.
2) Why NOT have another tier? Once upon a time they stopped at Platinum. Who’s complaining now that there’s a new tier above Platinum?
3) Who does it hurt to have another published tier that can’t be diluted by credit card shenanigans?
4) The more tiers, the merrier. Have 200K/$24K, 325K/$39K and 525K/$63K tiers while keeping the D360 Pegasus. That’ll effectively end MQM rollover, so be it. I may not make the top tier, but I’d happily live with that.
Aug 26, 2018, 10:27 pm
#45
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SDF
Programs: DL:360/DM/6 MMer; Bonvoy: Lifetime Titanium 10+M pts, 3100+ nights;
Posts: 1,441