Service dog taking up whole row
#16
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The problem here is that the service dog was in the bulkhead. There is no room for the dog to go! My dad has a Seeing Eye dog and Delta always tries to put us in the bulkhead. We have to call to request to be moved to a non-bulkhead row because the dog is trained to sit in the space under the seat in front.
#17
Join Date: Jan 2016
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Couldn't think of anything worse. No way could I have sat next to a dog
Last edited by anniegray; Aug 25, 2018 at 1:58 am
#18
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The problem here is that the service dog was in the bulkhead. There is no room for the dog to go! My dad has a Seeing Eye dog and Delta always tries to put us in the bulkhead. We have to call to request to be moved to a non-bulkhead row because the dog is trained to sit in the space under the seat in front.
#19
Join Date: Apr 2017
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1) Delta should not have service animals in the bulkhead.
2) Was this actually a service animal or was it a ‘service animal’?
3) Service animal owners need training too. Maybe that was their first flight? Maybe they were not told/didn’t figure it out that the bulkhead has less room?
#20
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Again, there are no consistent training standards for true service animals.
2) It shouldn't be left up to the seatmate to complain and make a fuss. Airline staff should proactively solve the problem, including by insisting that the animal's owner buy a second seat on a later flight if necessary. It shouldn't have been the OP's burden.
#21
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https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/382.117
#22
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Delta can't. The number of posts from people who obviously haven't read and understood the relevant CFR is striking.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/382.117
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/382.117
#23
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The OP was in a no win situation, especially if they had pushed the subject every citizen journalist would be filming it and putting it up on the internet.
#24
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Which implies their lawyers have found the guidance offered by DOT on compliance with the law isn’t clear enough to allow for a fee policy.
Or is there a systems issue for issuing a second ticket like for a person of size?
#25
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Most of us here would be glad to see that - and there are few fees the major airlines wouldn’t want to collect.
Which implies their lawyers have found the guidance offered by DOT on compliance with the law isn’t clear enough to allow for a fee policy.
Or is there a systems issue for issuing a second ticket like for a person of size?
#26
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Does the disability override the utility that another passenger has paid for. If it was a child once a certain age/size is reached then they must occupy their own seat. It should be no different for a service animal. If they can afford to travel in first they can afford another seat for a large animal.
#27
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Once in a gazillion flights (my personal statistics is 0 out of 1000+ lifetime segments) you encounter an inconvenience caused by a dog - is it really such an issue to justify wasting time on writing someone?
A quarter of my flights have issues with delays, poor service, tsa lines, bad catering etc etc - dogs are the least of my concern. Ymmv.
A quarter of my flights have issues with delays, poor service, tsa lines, bad catering etc etc - dogs are the least of my concern. Ymmv.
#28
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Once in a gazillion flights (my personal statistics is 0 out of 1000+ lifetime segments) you encounter an inconvenience caused by a dog - is it really such an issue to justify wasting time on writing someone?
A quarter of my flights have issues with delays, poor service, tsa lines, bad catering etc etc - dogs are the least of my concern. Ymmv.
A quarter of my flights have issues with delays, poor service, tsa lines, bad catering etc etc - dogs are the least of my concern. Ymmv.
The literally would rather make things more difficult for people with legitimate needs than to deal with the trauma of simply knowing someone got their pet onto a plane for free.
#29
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Checking further, it's explicit carriers cannot charge under the current rule....only persons of size have an exemption to be charged...
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=ae47679a5dc0b0cdd685abc7e3437dbb&mc=true&n ode=pt14.4.382&rgn=div5#se14.4.382_1117May carriers impose special charges on passengers with a disability for providing services and accommodations required by this rule?
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this part you must not, as a carrier, impose charges for providing facilities, equipment, or services that this rule requires to be provided to passengers with a disability. You may charge for services that this part does not require.(b) You may charge a passenger for the use of more than one seat if the passenger's size or condition (e.g., use of a stretcher) causes him or her to occupy the space of more than one seat. This is not considered a special charge under this section.-------
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So this is not a Delta policy issue. It's a gov't issue in the process of being reviewed.
Looking at the latest comment from DOT - they're clear here that use of a portion of an adjacent seat's foot space is par for the course under current guidelines - not enough reason to deny accompanying a traveler.
But they were seeking comment on ways to change that (comment period ended last month).
"While the Department previously concluded that a service animal’s reasonable use of a portion of an adjacent seat’s foot space does not deny another passenger effective use of the space for his or her feet and is not an adequate reason for the carrier to refuse to permit the animal to accompany its user at his or her seat, some airlines have indicated that passengers feel pressured to agree to such an arrangement and have later expressed to airline personnel their dissatisfaction at having to share their foot space. The Department seeks comment on whether it should allow airlines to limit the size of emotional support animals or other service animals that travel in the cabin and the implications of such a decision. The Department also seeks comment on whether passengers would find it burdensome to share foot space with service animals and what concerns passengers might have with such an arrangement."
https://www.regulations.gov/document...2018-0068-0001
https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/dot3618
No, people who abuse are making things more difficult for people with legitimate needs. It's cabin crew concerns and liability from recent injuries sustained by passengers that's caused the airlines to push for reform earlier this year.
Not petitions from people on the internet.
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=ae47679a5dc0b0cdd685abc7e3437dbb&mc=true&n ode=pt14.4.382&rgn=div5#se14.4.382_1117May carriers impose special charges on passengers with a disability for providing services and accommodations required by this rule?
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this part you must not, as a carrier, impose charges for providing facilities, equipment, or services that this rule requires to be provided to passengers with a disability. You may charge for services that this part does not require.(b) You may charge a passenger for the use of more than one seat if the passenger's size or condition (e.g., use of a stretcher) causes him or her to occupy the space of more than one seat. This is not considered a special charge under this section.-------
-------
So this is not a Delta policy issue. It's a gov't issue in the process of being reviewed.
Looking at the latest comment from DOT - they're clear here that use of a portion of an adjacent seat's foot space is par for the course under current guidelines - not enough reason to deny accompanying a traveler.
But they were seeking comment on ways to change that (comment period ended last month).
"While the Department previously concluded that a service animal’s reasonable use of a portion of an adjacent seat’s foot space does not deny another passenger effective use of the space for his or her feet and is not an adequate reason for the carrier to refuse to permit the animal to accompany its user at his or her seat, some airlines have indicated that passengers feel pressured to agree to such an arrangement and have later expressed to airline personnel their dissatisfaction at having to share their foot space. The Department seeks comment on whether it should allow airlines to limit the size of emotional support animals or other service animals that travel in the cabin and the implications of such a decision. The Department also seeks comment on whether passengers would find it burdensome to share foot space with service animals and what concerns passengers might have with such an arrangement."
https://www.regulations.gov/document...2018-0068-0001
https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/dot3618
Not petitions from people on the internet.
Last edited by cerealmarketer; Aug 25, 2018 at 11:59 am
#30
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you are half right. While there is no test true service dogs go through a training program to provide the special service required by their owner. Failure to train your service animal is, in my opinion, unethical.
Last edited by Collierkr; Aug 25, 2018 at 12:20 pm Reason: revised explanation