pvn

I'll agree that Delta's PE milage upgrades don't seem to make sense, especially in context with their milage upgrades to J. But milage upgrades seem pretty difficult to use in the first place. The entire program could use an overhaul but clearly nobody in DL has any motivation to do it.

jdrtravel

It sounds to me like a mileage upgrade was not available or that you did not have an upgrade eligible fare class. Instead of just saying no to you, it sounds like they basically offered you a pay with miles rate to buy up to PE.

Note that it's not what you paid for your fare that matters, but rather, the fare class and if there are mileage upgrades available. If both of these had been true the upgrade would likely have been less ( I would guess 25K miles each way or something like that).

ethernal

Delta apologists are quick to jump to attack here, but let's not pretend that International J redemption (either via GUC or via miles) are the worst of the three major airlines. OP raises a good point (even if not well communicated). While United miles have definitely been devalued, you can still find plenty of saver award availability. You can also jump on pretty much any United J flight for 320K miles or less - almost (although not quite to) last seat availability. Delta? Pshh, we'll effectively block out flights with 0 seats reserved a year in advance and charge 400K ONE WAY to tons of destinations (ATL->JNB? ATL->SYD? ATL->...tons of places). And we'll charge you what other airlines charge for J awards to upgrade from Y to a slightly bigger Y seat.

I get it, Delta is running a business. And they have the most aggressive revenue management approaches of any US airline. But that means that Delta is terrible for anyone who wants international business travel awards. Full stop. It's a fair critique relative to other programs. With Y+ leaving most of the fleet, it basically means that elites get no benefits on International flights (other than extra bags and IRROPS handling) which is pretty ridiculous.

jdrtravel

Mostly I agree with you, but this is not true. I think DL would argue that they have a better overall coach product than UA/AA, including free full bar for all pax, 32" pitch on lots of seats, 9-across 777, and better food. Also, elites get access to preferred seats and priority boarding, and GM+ gets Sky Team lounges, SP check in and best in class customer service. These are not nothing. And also I agree that the Sky Miles program is not great.

Zorak

I don't think it's a newsflash that DL J awards are often ludicrous (you can still sometimes find deals though), or that mileage upgrade awards on DL metal are one of the worst uses of Skypesos (I think the cheap mileage upgrades are all on partners?)

btonkid12345

Exactly this. The mileage upgrade program hasn't been useful since they did away with 12.5K to upgrade a K class or higher domestic ticket, including transcons.

The current iteration of the program is for someone buying the revenue ticket with OPM then not knowing how to value DL miles and willing to pay any amount to sit in a premium seat. It represents terrible value relative to other ticket options, but most people who redeem these now don't have other options - and DL knows it and charges a premium.

Correct. I recently used 65K miles for a last minute J ticket from AMS-MEX (or could have done CDG-MEX). Cash price was about $6500 USD. Partners are the sweet spot in the DL program given their pricing is not dynamic.

355F1

strickerj

ijgordon

They offer free business class tickets at a nearly equivalent mileage level, that's what they do. @:-)

ATOBTTR

Failing to see why the rant is necessary - and why you didn't check UA in the first place before actually booking DL or check what the mileage buy-up was prior to purchasing the DL flight. Despite your complaints about DL, this indicates you preferred DL over UA for some reason, at least initially, hence your decision to book the DL flight. Fortunately you were under the risk-free cancellation window and could cancel without penalty for what you determined was a better option for you. You voted with your wallet (and feet). Free market at work. If enough people do what you do, DL may decide to respond accordingly if they see it impact their bottom line.

And while $655 one-way for an upgrade may seem somewhat steep to PE, and maybe slightly above what I'd pay, It's hardly awful. For a 13 hour flight, that buy-up still works out to less than $1/min which many on FT use as their unofficial standard for determining whether to take a buy-up offer for domestic FC which is more or less what PE is. If you find a better offer for Business though, no reason not to take it if it meets your needs and schedule.

fotographer

I had my wife switch from DL (platinum) this year on a AA challenge.
She has been upgraded all but 1 of her last 8 flights, (something that only happened once on DL after being Pt for 7 years)
She is close to Pt pro already and will make EXP by the end of this year.
She loves it and to think we are based out of ATL

Gators300

I have found SkyMiles to be a great value on TPAC flights if you are flexible. D1 roundtrip fares for 150,000, (75 each way) on tickets otherwise valued at $6k-$8k. If you plan your vacation around your flight, (which I do) you can consistently find good deals.

I prefer DL though, because their customer service is better and they are generally more reliable, in my experience, than any other airline. I also enjoy Sky Clubs, fwiw, as I feel they are also, generally, better than the competition. To each his own though, and you should compare multiple airlines' rates/routes for each trip you take. If it is even in the same ballpark, I am flying DL.

gooselee

I dunno, $1800 for a nonstop in PE to Japan doesn't seem too bad. That's basically what DL is asking for. Just because we want RDM to be redeemable at 5 CPM across the board doesn't mean that will always be possible.

Good for her. Since you're ATL based, is she flying mostly to AA hubs/focus cities or having to take more connections everywhere? Or going to destinations where DL would require a connection as well?

In the end it's all YMMV. For some, the sometimes cheaper fares, better RDM program, and better upgrade % are very worthwhile. For others, the availability of nonstops to save time/energy/delays is worth a little extra $ and opportunity cost of RDMs and upgrades.

BearX220

DL proves over and over that an airline delivering quality products and services doesn't need much of an FF program. I would rather fly D1 over-ocean than any other US carrier, but I gave up SkyMiles years ago and would not cross the street to earn them. Having said that...

Quite right.

FlyingBeanCounter

I did the opposite for a time. I flew DL (Diamond for years) out of DEN. I was ALWAYS upgraded. No matter what. I might miss one flight every 30.

Then DL started in with their little bites here and there. Ultimately, being diamond on DL was no better than a lower tier on another airline. Add in the STUPID expensive fares out of DEN and it simply wasn't worth it.

When I switched back to UA I did so at 1k. I rarely get upgraded now as I fly mainly DEN-ORD. Hub to hub is tough no matter what. But the convenience of not having to switch planes and the flexibility of changes on UA more than make up for it.

I think DL is counting on their competition being worse than them for the foreseeable future. That is a pretty risky way to operate as they are all a commodity. Given no upgrades, no special treatment at all I will pick the cheapest carrier. Even with a moderate level I would still free agent now. The perks are just not worth it anymore. I would rather be there quicker then more comfortably.

One other thing - my overall schedule has tightened up. UA and DL are both late, but when you remove the plane change the probability of a catastrophic delay is much lower. I haven't been delayed more than 2 hours for anything on UA. on DL? Welll....... they were a four hour minimum every time there was delay due to the plane change.