Don’t fly DL but how is this being ridiculed? (Tamar Braxton claim)
Aug 1, 2018, 6:06 pm
#31
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Anyone have more facts or links to clearer explanations of what happened here?
Without those, discussion appears to me to be moving a little towards the incendiary and accusatory on both sides.
That said, issues of race can certainly play into poor behavior and assumptions of ill-will on all sides, one party assuming they're being targeted because of race and behaving less than courteously as a result, then the other party or side reacting with more aggression or scorn because of race etc. That can be a destructive dynamic which leads to quick escalations.
The question is, IMO, not how to assign blame, but how to avoid and de-escalate such situations, and what training and procedures on the Delta side might work towards that goal.
Without those, discussion appears to me to be moving a little towards the incendiary and accusatory on both sides.
That said, issues of race can certainly play into poor behavior and assumptions of ill-will on all sides, one party assuming they're being targeted because of race and behaving less than courteously as a result, then the other party or side reacting with more aggression or scorn because of race etc. That can be a destructive dynamic which leads to quick escalations.
The question is, IMO, not how to assign blame, but how to avoid and de-escalate such situations, and what training and procedures on the Delta side might work towards that goal.
Aug 1, 2018, 6:16 pm
#32
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Anyone have more facts or links to clearer explanations of what happened here?
Without those, discussion appears to me to be moving a little towards the incendiary and accusatory on both sides.
That said, issues of race can certainly play into poor behavior and assumptions of ill-will on all sides, one party assuming they're being targeted because of race and behaving less than courteously as a result, then the other party or side reacting with more aggression or scorn because of race etc. That can be a destructive dynamic which leads to quick escalations.
The question is, IMO, not how to assign blame, but how to avoid and de-escalate such situations, and what training and procedures on the Delta side might work towards that goal.
Without those, discussion appears to me to be moving a little towards the incendiary and accusatory on both sides.
That said, issues of race can certainly play into poor behavior and assumptions of ill-will on all sides, one party assuming they're being targeted because of race and behaving less than courteously as a result, then the other party or side reacting with more aggression or scorn because of race etc. That can be a destructive dynamic which leads to quick escalations.
The question is, IMO, not how to assign blame, but how to avoid and de-escalate such situations, and what training and procedures on the Delta side might work towards that goal.
I think it's safe to assume the ladies had been interacting with flight crew to some extent before he arrived and the video started.
Aug 1, 2018, 6:39 pm
#35
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There was a brief pilot onboard a regional jet operator (either one of Delta's or Alaska's operators) that placed very obvious cameras in the upper left corner of the bulkhead aimed at the cabin. I definitely flew onboard at least one affected flight. Not sure what became of that, but I haven't seen them recently. (Also having trouble finding relevant online discussion; this was several years ago, but FT's search feature is failing me.)
I'm sure many more aircraft actually do have cctv coverage we don't know about that's less visually obvious, of course.
I'm sure many more aircraft actually do have cctv coverage we don't know about that's less visually obvious, of course.
Aug 1, 2018, 6:58 pm
#36
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It seems to me that we want pilots to operate with command authority, and that's critical to this situation.
On the other hand, all else aside here, perhaps a little self-effacement or humour would have calmed things down a bit, something along the lines of "I don't know what happened here, but we're trying to get off the ground here and not head back to the gate. That's going to take you doing X,Y, and Z."
Of course, the difference between what I just wrote and the tone I have in my mind, and what the captain did, is pretty subtle at best, isn't it?
Aug 1, 2018, 7:22 pm
#37
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Pilot seemed to do a good job? It seems most pilots would probably just be like "kick them off", this one at least gave her one more chance to behave. Of course these D-list singers/celebrities will play the DYKWIA and race card.
Aug 1, 2018, 8:02 pm
#38
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Aug 1, 2018, 9:44 pm
#42
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I'm not sure what *your* point is. Mine is that something actively prompted the pilot to have this interaction. And that something was almost certainly more than just the pax being black.
I imagine a pilot who felt and acted upon the need to have this conversation with every non-white pax they notice would not get far enough in their career to set foot in the cockpit of a major commercial airline.
I imagine a pilot who felt and acted upon the need to have this conversation with every non-white pax they notice would not get far enough in their career to set foot in the cockpit of a major commercial airline.
Aug 1, 2018, 10:16 pm
#43
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I'm not sure what *your* point is. Mine is that something actively prompted the pilot to have this interaction. And that something was almost certainly more than just the pax being black.
I imagine a pilot who felt and acted upon the need to have this conversation with every non-white pax they notice would not get far enough in their career to set foot in the cockpit of a major commercial airline.
I imagine a pilot who felt and acted upon the need to have this conversation with every non-white pax they notice would not get far enough in their career to set foot in the cockpit of a major commercial airline.
again
this is a strawman argument. literally nobody is arguing that the person here did nothing other than "be black". That's not how this sort of thing works.
Aug 1, 2018, 10:35 pm
#44
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I'm wondering what the sister of a celebrity does to be a 2MM DM (but not a 360 apparently).
Aug 1, 2018, 10:49 pm
#45
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again
That's the entire point of this thread. The woman who took and posted the video is very specifically arguing that her sister did nothing other than "flying while black". Thus her social media commentary and hash tags.