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Looks like Alitalia will be exiting the TATL JV

Looks like Alitalia will be exiting the TATL JV

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Old Jul 21, 18, 1:13 pm
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Looks like Alitalia will be exiting the TATL JV

Delta filed a petition with the DOT recently to replace the SkyTeam JV between Delta, Air France, KLM and Alitalia, as well as the Delta/Virgin Atlantic JV with a single, integrated joint venture.

We all know Alitalia is a basket case and just as likely to wind up with EasyJet or Lufthansa as a major shareholder as it is to even survive, so I guess it makes sense. But I'm still sad to see it go. I've done a lot of intra-EU short-haul on Alitalia.

Anyone have ideas when the MQM/SkyMiles earning will change?

Here's the relevant passage from the JV application

Alitalia Compagnia Aerea Italiana S.P.A. (“Alitalia”) is not a party to the Amended JVA, which will not be implemented until the preexisting SkyTeam JV to which Alitalia is a party is terminated according to the terms of that agreement. Although the Parties hope to implement metal-neutral cooperation with Alitalia in the future, Alitalia is currently undergoing restructuring through the Italian bankruptcy process, and its future ownership structure is uncertain. The timing of any future agreement with Alitalia is currently uncertain. The Parties provide a detailed description of the Amended JVA in Appendix 2, infra.
Docket DOT-OST-2013-0068
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Old Jul 21, 18, 1:16 pm
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Good find.
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Old Jul 21, 18, 9:07 pm
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Totally confused.

Is Alitalia a partner or not?

If not when did it happen?

Should we book Alitalia flights with some other mileage program than Skyteam?
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Old Jul 21, 18, 10:19 pm
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Originally Posted by Lomapaseo View Post
Totally confused.

Is Alitalia a partner or not?

If not when did it happen?

Should we book Alitalia flights with some other mileage program than Skyteam?
They remain a SkyTeam member and Delta partner. For now, they're still a full member of the JV. But once the new Delta/AF/KL/Virgin Atlantic JV is implemented, Alitalia will be more akin to Czech Air or Tarom than it is AF/KL.

In other words, status quo for now. But change is coming — and I doubt we'll like it.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 2:03 am
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Isn’t the Alitalia JV membership contractually guaranteed for several more years? I thought I saw somebody say 2021. Is there some buyoff termination clause Delta et al can exercise?
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Old Jul 22, 18, 3:46 am
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31 March 2022. Seems strange they would want to wait that long.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 6:46 am
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There must be a termination clause we don’t know about. There’s no way they file now for something they can’t do until 2022.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 6:56 am
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I imagine that financial solvency could be a contractual requirement. If not, all parties might agree to the termination anyway. Alitalia might be more attractive to potential partners if it isn't tied to a particular JV, so it may want out anyway.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 7:05 am
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Originally Posted by jrkmsp View Post
They remain a SkyTeam member and Delta partner. For now, they're still a full member of the JV. But once the new Delta/AF/KL/Virgin Atlantic JV is implemented, Alitalia will be more akin to Czech Air or Tarom than it is AF/KL.

In other words, status quo for now. But change is coming — and I doubt we'll like it.
Gargoyl must be devastated. He was a fan of AZ and used/uses them often.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 7:20 am
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Well Alitalia sure had a significant impact upon Etihad. You see what is going between Etihad and Emirates (cooperation). Then you see what is happening with South African Airway and the UAE. There is something afoot for sure.

However, look at the TATL JV does it really need another European based JV partner? If you fly to Rome a lot OK but what onward destination can you not get from DL, AF, KLM or VS?
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Old Jul 22, 18, 7:25 am
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The quote in the OP specifically mentions terminating the agreement with AZ, so this is clearly an option. (we're unlikely to ever know the details)

At the rate Alitalia was disappearing from the various Delta advertisements, I actually thought the divorce proceedings had already started.

OP: Not sure how you found this, but good investigative work.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 7:26 am
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It's not Rome as much as other Italian airports beyond Rome, Milan, Venice, Florence, and Naples, although the domestic AZ flights have been all coach for a long time and connections through Italian airports are often not fun. Even NAP is a pain with one AF/KLM flight per day. Most of us don't want to be forced to take a budget carrier on a separate ticket.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 7:30 am
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
It's not Rome as much as other Italian airports beyond Rome, Milan, Venice, Florence, and Naples, although the domestic AZ flights have been all coach for a long time and connections through Italian airports are often not fun. Even NAP is a pain with one AF/KLM flight per day. Most of us don't want to be forced to take a budget carrier on a separate ticket.
NAP is (reasonably) well served by Lufthansa.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 7:32 am
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Originally Posted by rprimo View Post
However, look at the TATL JV does it really need another European based JV partner? If you fly to Rome a lot OK but what onward destination can you not get from DL, AF, KLM or VS?
There are a few incremental destinations but I don't think that was ever the point: It was to control capacity (and thus influence market pricing) to FCO and MXP.

Alitalia can't lose boatloads of money forever - EU rules limit state support. There will be some restructuring. If ownership or management control shifts to LH, LH won't want it in SkyTeam.
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Old Jul 22, 18, 7:34 am
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Now that I think about it, NAP is better served by LH than AZ. I think all AZ connections from the US are in FCO. Of the dozen or so people that I know who have connected in FCO to NAP, -not one- arrived with their checked bag. AZ May have better frequency, but I was never going to fly with them where there's an international connection anyway.
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