Delta to add Seattle-Osaka, Drops SEA-HKG
Sep 27, 2018, 1:06 am
#316
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tokyo
Programs: DL Diamond, ANA Platinum
Posts: 1,532
As a long time Kansai area resident, I fully agree. One problem with ITM is flights to NRT, which leave only first thing in the morning, meaning several hours of layover, or too late in the afternoon to connect with Delta departing flights. (Return to Japan from the US is much better for connection to a flight to ITM.) Schedule to HND is better, but often the better Delta fight leaves from NRT. Direct comparisons between ITM and KIX are like apples and oranges, too many factors involved.
Sep 27, 2018, 8:16 am
#317
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.7MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,944
It’s a shame DL failed in its attempt to form a partnership with Skymark - this would have solved a real problem for SkyTeam in Japan, as you correctly point out. ANA was smart to lock them up via an investment agreement...
Sep 27, 2018, 3:15 pm
#318
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,203
Flying out of KIX to connect somewhere anyway (like ICN) is a double-whammy for far too many people. If any connection is involved, almost everyone I know from Kansai would rather deal with ITM in this case than trek out to KIX. That said, a close friend of mine is from the suburban part of Kansai that happens to be closer to KIX, but even he'd rather use ITM due to its easier check-in/boarding procedures and greater frequency.
That being said, for domestic flights KIX doesn't make sense, as there are too little destinations served and even ones that are served have low frequency. So, there is no choice but to go to ITM for most domestic routes.
Sep 28, 2018, 5:16 am
#319
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Japan/Thailand
Programs: AS, UA
Posts: 1,201
You've got it in reverse. ITM is a trek, having to take a bus or otherwise metro -> train -> monorail. It's a major hassle to get to or from ITM via transit due to multiple changes and long walks up/down at the connecting stations, and heavy delays if via car or bus. KIX, on the other hand, is a breeze to get to. Plus KIX (unless recovering from some storm) operates much better: arrive at airport and at the gate (int'l) in under 15 minutes every time. ITM always takes longer, though it's smaller.
That being said, for domestic flights KIX doesn't make sense, as there are too little destinations served and even ones that are served have low frequency. So, there is no choice but to go to ITM for most domestic routes.
That being said, for domestic flights KIX doesn't make sense, as there are too little destinations served and even ones that are served have low frequency. So, there is no choice but to go to ITM for most domestic routes.
Getting to ITM by train does involve the extra transfer to the monorail although it's not that difficult or slow overall. If you travel by bus it is still faster and closer than KIX to anywhere in central or north Osaka, Kyoto, or Kobe (check the timetables - 25-40 minutes from Namba to ITM, 50-60 to KIX)
Sep 28, 2018, 3:28 pm
#320
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: IAH
Programs: Delta Platinum & 2MM, Marriott Lifetime TIT, Hertz Pres Club, IHG Gold, *A Gold
Posts: 1,253
Not surprised - For all the things Delta does well, Delta is HORRIBLE when it comes to notifications about schedule changes. I actually cannot understand why prompt notification isn't required by the DOT (perhaps they're unaware on how bad it is). Thankfully I know to frequently check my itineraries but I find it's less than 1/4 of the time that I'll actually get notified about the schedule change and I find out by logging in and seeing the changes in "My Trips". I had an HND-LAX-SEA ticket booked at the time of the slot-swap when the US airlines were finally given day-time departure slots and out of HND and my departure time got moved from Midnight to 5 PM. Never received an email about it. I at least knew it was coming because of following FT and Aviation news so knew I was likely to be impacted, and then knew to check my itinerary once it went into effect. (It did turn out well though - I used the change to switch HND-LAX-SEA to NRT-DTW-SEA to get my one and only DL 747 ride, upper deck of course! 
)
I wonder how many people don't know or think to check though, and end-up missing flights or end up scrambling when they find out at online check-in and then have to re-arrange plans because of not being notified well in advance.
)I wonder how many people don't know or think to check though, and end-up missing flights or end up scrambling when they find out at online check-in and then have to re-arrange plans because of not being notified well in advance.
Sep 29, 2018, 3:06 am
#321
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,032
Delta just told this 2MM DM to F.O.. They are unable to get me to HK any earlier than 4+ hours after my originally booked arrival time. The first person I talked to said I could call back and do "anything I wanted" because it was Delta's fault for cancelling the route. I knew this wasn't true, but called anyway to try and change the destination to SIN. Yes, I knew it was a longshot. In the end, they just really ended up pissing me off.
Sep 29, 2018, 11:33 am
#322
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tokyo
Programs: DL Diamond, ANA Platinum
Posts: 1,532
You've got it in reverse. ITM is a trek, having to take a bus or otherwise metro -> train -> monorail. It's a major hassle to get to or from ITM via transit due to multiple changes and long walks up/down at the connecting stations, and heavy delays if via car or bus. KIX, on the other hand, is a breeze to get to. Plus KIX (unless recovering from some storm) operates much better: arrive at airport and at the gate (int'l) in under 15 minutes every time. ITM always takes longer, though it's smaller.
KIX is a PITA and just flat out time consuming for anyone north of Namba.
Let's not forget that ITM and KIX are supposed to serve all of Kansai (Kobe, Kyoto, Nara), all for whom KIX is an even more arduous trek. KIX is so impractical for some in Kyoto that they'd rather go to NGO. From Kyoto Station, you can get to either KIX or NGO in exactly 80 minutes at the quickest via train(s) -- even though NGO is 86km farther.
Last edited by FireEmblemPride; Sep 29, 2018 at 11:42 am
Sep 29, 2018, 7:38 pm
#323
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Programs: DL Platinum (ST+), JL JGC (ows), NH SFC (*AG)
Posts: 104
Delta just told this 2MM DM to F.O.. They are unable to get me to HK any earlier than 4+ hours after my originally booked arrival time. The first person I talked to said I could call back and do "anything I wanted" because it was Delta's fault for cancelling the route. I knew this wasn't true, but called anyway to try and change the destination to SIN. Yes, I knew it was a longshot. In the end, they just really ended up pissing me off.
Anyway - maybe give them a call back? I’m looking forward to my increased MQMs and time in Singapore!
Sep 30, 2018, 12:45 am
#324
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SJC, SFO
Programs: Delta DM, IHG Spire, Hertz PC, H.com Gold^3, lowly something on others...
Posts: 1,260
This nightmare just doesn't stop!!! I start wonder why I fly with Delta anymore. I've seen more of Korean Air and China Airlines in the last year than I did in all the years before that. Admin booked me on a Jin Air flight to connect. Even though owned by Korean Air, it's in T1. Even going to HK now is crazier and PITA than ever... Just called in to cancel my Delta credit card... one flight away from Diamond and I seriously need to change airline.
Sep 30, 2018, 12:51 am
#325
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.7MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,944
This nightmare just doesn't stop!!! I start wonder why I fly with Delta anymore. I've seen more of Korean Air and China Airlines in the last year than I did in all the years before that. Admin booked me on a Jin Air flight to connect. Even though owned by Korean Air, it's in T1. Even going to HK now is crazier and PITA than ever... Just called in to cancel my Delta credit card... one flight away from Diamond and I seriously need to change airline.
I don’t necessarily disagree with your fundamental statement that getting to Asia on DL is getting harder, though. You may find that CX/AA is a better fit for your travel patterns, particularly if you frequently need to go to HK or points beyond, or if you usually pay for J. My one experience with them was great - not notably better than CI, but still thoroughly enjoyable start to finish. And their lounges are incredible.
Sep 30, 2018, 1:14 am
#326
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SJC, SFO
Programs: Delta DM, IHG Spire, Hertz PC, H.com Gold^3, lowly something on others...
Posts: 1,260
To be fair, Jin Air is a low cost carrier that is not formally affiliated with SkyTeam. The situation is no different than Transavia flights being ineligible for any benefits or earnings on Delta - excluding LCC startups is pretty common these days. Were you booked on a DL codeshare? Or (more likely) a KE-coded flight? If so, we’ll need to start watching out for that when booking...
I don’t necessarily disagree with your fundamental statement that getting to Asia on DL is getting harder, though. You may find that CX/AA is a better fit for your travel patterns, particularly if you frequently need to go to HK or points beyond, or if you usually pay for J. My one experience with them was great - not notably better than CI, but still thoroughly enjoyable start to finish. And their lounges are incredible.
I haven't been to Osaka 30 40 times but enough times to know KIX is NOT an easy airport. ITM is way easier. I would much prefer fly into HND an then take ANA to ITM. ANA (and JAL and Sky) offers super cheap foreigner fares... It's a win win for most people.
Sep 30, 2018, 1:20 am
#327
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SJC, SFO
Programs: Delta DM, IHG Spire, Hertz PC, H.com Gold^3, lowly something on others...
Posts: 1,260
Delta just told this 2MM DM to F.O.. They are unable to get me to HK any earlier than 4+ hours after my originally booked arrival time. The first person I talked to said I could call back and do "anything I wanted" because it was Delta's fault for cancelling the route. I knew this wasn't true, but called anyway to try and change the destination to SIN. Yes, I knew it was a longshot. In the end, they just really ended up pissing me off.
Sep 30, 2018, 1:35 am
#328
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Earth. Residency:HKG formerly:YYZ
Programs: CX, DL, Nexus/GE, APEC
Posts: 10,682
I had a DL arrival post AEx running and DL set me Hom the Island side on Taxi. KE are not known for their generosity in Asia.
The real flying into HKG options is CX status match.
Oct 1, 2018, 12:41 pm
#329
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: IAH
Programs: Delta Platinum & 2MM, Marriott Lifetime TIT, Hertz Pres Club, IHG Gold, *A Gold
Posts: 1,253
Maybe you got a bad agent. I also had the same issue and was allowed to change my origin to SIN, instead of HKG. When all routes are cancelled, they should be willing to consider another nearby airport. Of course, HKG and SIN aren’t geographically so near to each other, but considering the few airports served by DL in Asia, I guess it wasn’t too crazy of an idea.
Anyway - maybe give them a call back? I’m looking forward to my increased MQMs and time in Singapore!
They've put a note in my file and each agent I speak with now gets snottier. I always take the survey at the end of the call!
Oct 1, 2018, 12:56 pm
#330
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,203
I've called 4 times and probably spoken to 7 different people...Diamond desk, International desk, Customer Service and Skypesos Team. All resulting in the same...getting bent over.
They've put a note in my file and each agent I speak with now gets snottier. I always take the survey at the end of the call!
They've put a note in my file and each agent I speak with now gets snottier. I always take the survey at the end of the call!
The only thing you can count on with DL is total and utter inconsistency.
