Delta to add Seattle-Osaka, Drops SEA-HKG

Old Jun 14, 18, 5:23 pm
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by sleuth View Post


You donít remember Ed blaming the ME3 when Delta announced they were dropping DXB? He didnít mention he was getting ready to receive $40 million in *gasp* fuel Ďsubsidiesí from the state of Georgia government.
Not to mention that for a time they were subsidized on the PDX-NRT flight too by the State of Oregon.
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Old Jun 14, 18, 5:26 pm
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Originally Posted by BenA View Post
Microsoft does have operations in HKG, as in most major cities - but to the best of my knowledge, their main Asia Pacific corporate presence is in Singapore. Traffic to HKG would largely be from hardware engineering folks intending to visit factories and partners in Shenzhen, and the Xiamen flight will cover that traffic perfectly fine. I actually think Microsoft would be more impacted by the loss of connectivity to Taipei, where many computer manufacturers are located, than by the loss of an HKG direct. (I assume they just use the EVA Air flight instead for TPE, though.)
Without revealing too much about my job, I can only tell you your assumption is wrong. There is also another large company in Seattle with equal need to go to Shenzhen that is currently using Delta almost exclusively. They even send their California people up through SEA to go to Asia... EVA flight doesn't benefit MS employees as it does to the PC suppliers, which are mostly Taiwan-based.

At the end of the day, if we have to constantly fly codeshare partners, then what's the point of keeping Delta. None of the elite benefits works on codeshare partner. I tried to GUC a Korean Air flight and couldn't get it done. DM desk knows this benefit but no one knows how to execute it, and Korean Air is the only Asian partner that supposedly allow GUC. I fly Delta because the seats are wider and softer, and they are always on-time and even in economy, they feed you enough so you are not hungry.

I am 5'8, 145lbs, and every time I do a flight on Asian airlines (CI, KE, MU, FM, MF) I am hungry and nearly in fainting and dehydrated state when I land. All of them serve only 2 small meals with no midnight snack... Just in case you don't know, KE's bibimbap is mostly chopped veggie with a large bowl of rice...with a small side of pickle and no dessert. You can eat off everything and lick the plate clean and you will still be hungry in 2 hours. Heck, even the water is served in an espresso shot size cup instead of a full bottle.

Delta caters to Americans, both in our physical size (for the seat) and appetite (for food portion and alcohol)...

At this rate, United is the only full pledge international airline left in the US.

Come to think of it, I know NRT like the back of my hand - every store and shop... even the CI and KE lounge attendant knows me by name... I really do not want to know more about ICN... Every freakin' connection flight is a nightmare and I am 6 down since 5/1...
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Old Jun 14, 18, 6:06 pm
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Originally Posted by DesertNomad View Post
Not to mention that for a time they were subsidized on the PDX-NRT flight too by the State of Oregon.
PIT-CDG was also subsidized by the government. Delta management may as well be politicians with the number of lies people catch them in.

IND-CDG and RDU-CDG are also being subsidized by Indiana and North Carolina in the millions of $$$.
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Old Jun 14, 18, 7:15 pm
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Originally Posted by DesertNomad View Post
Not to mention that for a time they were subsidized on the PDX-NRT flight too by the State of Oregon.
Or the Indiana subsidies for Indianapolis-Paris that Delta is now operating.
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Old Jun 14, 18, 7:17 pm
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Originally Posted by wlau View Post
At this rate, United is the only full pledge international airline left in the US.
Well, you definitely could argue Delta is a regional airline if you count only their flights and not codeshare flights or partner flights.
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Old Jun 14, 18, 8:39 pm
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider View Post
Well, you definitely could argue Delta is a regional airline if you count only their flights and not codeshare flights or partner flights.
How? They have multiple flights to Europe and Asia, have service to South Africa and Australia and will be returning to India. (Not to mention Canada/Mexico/Caribbean routes). All of that strikes me as an international airline. People get upset whenever their favorite city is dropped and then start malarky like "Delta isn't a true international airline because it doesn't fly to X Y or Z."
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Old Jun 14, 18, 9:03 pm
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Originally Posted by wlau View Post
Without revealing too much about my job, I can only tell you your assumption is wrong. There is also another large company in Seattle with equal need to go to Shenzhen that is currently using Delta almost exclusively. They even send their California people up through SEA to go to Asia... EVA flight doesn't benefit MS employees as it does to the PC suppliers, which are mostly Taiwan-based.

At the end of the day, if we have to constantly fly codeshare partners, then what's the point of keeping Delta. None of the elite benefits works on codeshare partner. I tried to GUC a Korean Air flight and couldn't get it done. DM desk knows this benefit but no one knows how to execute it, and Korean Air is the only Asian partner that supposedly allow GUC. I fly Delta because the seats are wider and softer, and they are always on-time and even in economy, they feed you enough so you are not hungry.

I am 5'8, 145lbs, and every time I do a flight on Asian airlines (CI, KE, MU, FM, MF) I am hungry and nearly in fainting and dehydrated state when I land. All of them serve only 2 small meals with no midnight snack... Just in case you don't know, KE's bibimbap is mostly chopped veggie with a large bowl of rice...with a small side of pickle and no dessert. You can eat off everything and lick the plate clean and you will still be hungry in 2 hours. Heck, even the water is served in an espresso shot size cup instead of a full bottle.

Delta caters to Americans, both in our physical size (for the seat) and appetite (for food portion and alcohol)...

At this rate, United is the only full pledge international airline left in the US.

Come to think of it, I know NRT like the back of my hand - every store and shop... even the CI and KE lounge attendant knows me by name... I really do not want to know more about ICN... Every freakin' connection flight is a nightmare and I am 6 down since 5/1...
couldnt agree more, illl never understand why so many people automatically assume the asian carrier are better....also cx only gives bottled water to its top tier elites, everyone else gets it from the tank
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Old Jun 14, 18, 9:08 pm
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This is utterly devastating that the world's second largest airline cannot sustain a flight to HKG. Go figure Delta is still flying NRT-SIN but can't manage a flight to HKG. Four years ago when Delta issued the RFP for 747 replacements, I thought the choice of the A350-900 was the right call. I don't think that anymore. They should have sucked it up with the 10 242 tonne A330-300s and the six 77Ls offered to immediately retire the 747 while the 18 788s inherited from NW could have been converted to 789s. A 789 could have kept SEA-HKG going. The A330-200 struggles too much for this flight in the winter. Remember when SEA-HKG went down to twice weekly in the winter? Weight restrictions big reason why. Hell if Delta had taken the 788s from NW, well the non-terrible teens ones which unfortunately they were slotted to receive several of them, SEA-HKG was a no brainer and would have done alright. Of course that's just one part of the equation.

The second is the incredibly weak HKG market penetration. UA is fortunate they have hubs in cities with strong HKG traffic in NYC, the Bay Area, and to a lesser extent ORD. I don't see Delta trying any JFK-Asia flying with the exception of maybe Delta and KE shifting metal around where Delta would operate a JFK-ICN frequency. Why would they operate JFK-HKG instead? Of course not. ATL is weak as well, in fact, the strongest ATL-Asia market is ICN and not even close. Delta is able to maintain ATL-NRT as the SE, when excluding IAD/IAH/DFW, has no other TYO flight. In fact, Delta is upgauging ATL-NRT to the A350-900 starting next March. I'm sceptical over whether ATL-PVG this time will work, even with the MU code-share. The times are not great for connections at PVG in either direction. DTW, on the other hand, works fine due to much larger market and better geography. So no chance of ATL-HKG. Could Delta return to DTW-HKG? I thought with the last ten A350-900s being taken as 280 tonnes, well that is if Delta does take the final ten which I have my doubts, Delta going back to DTW-HKG was a given. Now, not anymore. MSP-HKG is an even weaker market so no. The only place where I see Delta returning to HKG is LAX, even with the blood bath. Richard Anderson's idea for a SEA-Asia hub was the wrong call as while the market is getting larger, its nowhere near as big as LAX, even with the competition. Imagine if Delta had started LAX-HKG before AA did. While I get it Delta has no code-share on the HKG end, AA does not have a particularly strong relationship with CX. After the investment stake in CZ, AA's relationship with CX has cooled. Its rumoured that CX is considering ditching OW for SA. Yet AA has no problem with DFW-HKG, just take a look at the upgrade lists. CX actually dropped a daily flight from LAX soon after AA started LAX-HKG. With HX entering the market, there are now five daily flights between LAX and HKG. LAX-PVG also have five dailies. I believe LAX-HKG is actually the larger of the two markets. I have to think Delta has tried but failed to cozy up with HX.

It really is stunning could not HKG work at all. I wonder if there will be any push back from any corporate deals. JFK-NRT going away was one. Just fly NYC-MSP-HND and you're in downtown TYO, well almost. But no Delta metal to one of the world's premier financial centres, yet they are still flying to SIN, albeit via NRT? Sooner or later we'll find out what happens to NRT-SIN/MNL. Delta's hookup with NW with NRT-Asia flying without a JV partner until last month, and lack of a West Coast Pacific hub, well they had LAX but Ed's preference for LAX-Asia lost out to Anderson's SEA-Asia. I'll state this again, that NW should have merged with AA back in 2008 instead of DL as NRT was a OW hub. Delta should have merged with UA and fought tooth and nail for DOJ approval, which really shouldn't have been a problem. But I digress. This is a massive failure on Delta's Asia strategy over the past decade and to think that its possible that in a just few years Delta metal will only be flying to just TYO/NGO/KIX/ICN/PEK/PVG in East Asia is pathetic. The two reasons Delta-China isn't going anywhere, even with the excess capacity, is the JV doesn't cover China due to no open skies, and Delta still has that investment in MU. (I'd look for Delta to try to peel off AA's ORD-PEK when they suspend the route this fall and re-apply for LAX-PEK.)

With all this being said, if you noticed the renderings of Delta's new LAX facility, there were an awful lot of A350-900s being featured. I wonder if Delta is going to not just add LAX-PEK, but will use their metal on LAX-ICN in DL-KE capacity adjustments, and maybe, just maybe, a return to HKG. I'll say it again, Delta should have gone all in on LAX right after the merger instead of the SEA experiment.
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Old Jun 14, 18, 9:24 pm
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Originally Posted by discoseal View Post
I have no doubt DL will continue to hold onto at least one HKG slot for future purposes as well as Cantonese-FA's
If only they would start a HKG to HNL/OGG/KON, all would be forgiven
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Old Jun 14, 18, 9:37 pm
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Originally Posted by steve15182 View Post
If only they would start a HKG to HNL/OGG/KON, all would be forgiven
Expect HAL to start HNL-HKG, possibly before the 787-9 arrive. The 787-9 is the perfect aircraft for HAL to start HNL-HKG
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Old Jun 14, 18, 9:50 pm
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I really don't think the sky is falling the way some in this thread believe. It doesn't really hurt the real corporate traffic in big cities, it just changes where the DL loyalists have to connect (ICN / PVG instead of SEA).

I think KE and DL need to re-time their flight flows to cover this the way UA and NH have aligned to cover the gaps (like BKK) and that would solve a lot of this.

Where this hurts is the secondary cities like me here in RDU since this kills RDU - SEA - HKG and forces you to do RDU - CDG - HKG if you want a one-stop SkyTeam option
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Old Jun 14, 18, 11:02 pm
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That was Richard and Richard's ego. He loved his spat with Boeing. Went after the 787. Took on the 777 and used prices.

Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post


No kidding. Canceling the 787 was extremely short-sighted.
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Old Jun 14, 18, 11:07 pm
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Completely incorrect. The VS over DL to LHR was a DL decision and it was done to in part to reintroduce the Virgin brand to Seattle shortly after the hometown airline announced it was was buying a Virgin and doing away with it - and attempt at messing with AS - while also greatly improving the product to LHR. Remember, the profits are shared whether DL or Virigin Atl is flying it.

Originally Posted by BenA View Post
Yup. SEA-LHR is another great example of a route that was tried, cancelled, resurrected, and then handed over to VS. Routes come and go based on the economy, demand, airport capacity, and aircraft availability, and it's a healthy part of running a profitable airline.
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Old Jun 14, 18, 11:11 pm
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Originally Posted by n7371f View Post
That was Richard and Richard's ego. He loved his spat with Boeing. Went after the 787. Took on the 777 and used prices.
Agreed. He did Delta a huge disservice. They are at a competitive disadvantage with no smaller and efficient wide-body like the 787. Airbus only knows how to build huge wide-bodies. And that is too much capacity for many markets. If you all think it will suck to have to connect in ICN or PVG instead of nonstops from the US, wait until you are forced to connect in AMS or CDG to get anywhere on the other side of the Atlantic. Routes like ATL-DUS,ZRH,etc just won't be possible when your smallest aircraft is an A330 with 300 seats.
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Old Jun 14, 18, 11:34 pm
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This thread is hilarious.
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