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Originally Posted by MCO Flyer
(Post 29866506)
I believe DTW-HKG when operating was on a 777. While you are right that DL is just handing these flights off to KE to take care of, DL pilots are not happy about so much long haul international flights being handed over to KE and they reportedly are going to bring this issue up next year in contract negotiations. It seemed like with the additions of LAX-CDG/AMS and MSP-ICN all on DL metal, it seemed like they were going in that direction, but now pulling out of HKG completely is taking a step back. I can’t imagine NRT-SIN/MNL have much time left and SIN will soon become a global business capital that DL dosen’t fly to. Singapore may last a little longer, if only because it's already 7-plus hours from Tokyo to Singapore. Seoul to Singapore wouldn't be convenient, especially with non-stop flights to Singapore from New York and San Francisco now an option. |
This is so ....ed. I don’t pretend to be an airline executive, but DL’s frugal fleet strategy seems like it went too far when they canceled the 787 order. A 787 would work on this route IMO. Once you kill a route like this, it’s probably done for good. Sad I was was planning to fly to HKG sometime next year. It was going to be with DL. Now it’ll be with CX. |
Originally Posted by WWads
(Post 29866779)
This is so ....ed. I don’t pretend to be an airline executive, but DL’s frugal fleet strategy seems like it went too far when they canceled the 787 order. A 787 would work on this route IMO. Once you kill a route like this, it’s probably done for good. Sad |
Originally Posted by koreanair720
(Post 29866801)
Why? SEA-KIX is in fact a resurrected route itself.
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
(Post 29866767)
Well, I could always say Delta couldn't make it because their business-class product between Seattle-Hong Kong just wasn't competitive.
I'd certainly choose CX if frequent flier benefits and price were identical, but at a slight discount and with Medallion benefits, I'd have no qualms about choosing DL's HKG service. (To be fair, this was while the A330 was operating the route for Delta. But the 777s in their current form aren't long for the world anyway, so the tired J seats onboard there are a temporary problem.) |
I'm shocked that a major "international" carrier would abandon HKG, but I can see where connecting through SEA wouldn't be appealing to many people, especially if a 767 is used. It always seemed to me that DL decided to go with SEA-HKG rather than DTW-HKG to save costs (hauling all the weight of fuel for an ultralong route) and in a misguided attempt to force DL customers to do Asia through SEA (rather than the obvious choice of another carrier/alliance if pushed).
PMNW flew to KIX from DTW and at least earlier from JFK; I don't recall whether both routes were ever operated simultaneously. At the time I did the JFK-KIX nonstop, it was claimed to be the longest nonstop (commercial passenger) scheduled flight (operated by a USA carrier? I don't think this qualification was needed, but I'm wondering now in retrospect about carriers like BA, QF,and SQ that should have had some long flights too at the time) at 14 hours and 28 minutes. It was a 747 with IFC on the main deck at the time, but I don't remember whether it was the 747-200 or 747-400. A couple years later there was a PMNW MSP-KIX nonstop, also on a 747 and again I don't remember which one but the dates make me suspect that both of these routes were the 747-200. This was the era when the "Japanese FA" changed into a kimono on board, greeted all of the Japanese customers in IFC and business class, and had duties that included service the IFC Japanese meals and tea as well as cleaning the IFC toilets after almost every use (sort of like SQ).{Can I point out that these were the good old days?] A bit later, the MSP-HKG route was also a 747 on PMNW. None of these routes seemed to be obviously low yielding, nor were the NRT routes except for PDX and maybe SEA at the time. |
Wife & I are booked in C+ SEA-HKG 22-Dec-2018. My reservations still shows intact on the Delta website.
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Originally Posted by BenA
(Post 29866822)
Yup. SEA-LHR is another great example of a route that was tried, cancelled, resurrected, and then handed over to VS. Routes come and go based on the economy, demand, airport capacity, and aircraft availability, and it's a healthy part of running a profitable airline.
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Has Ed blamed dropping HKG on Emirates yet? |
I wonder if there's a corporate contract behind this... Nintendo is the only obvious possibility that comes to mind.
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
(Post 29866778)
Singapore may last a little longer, if only because it's already 7-plus hours from Tokyo to Singapore. Seoul to Singapore wouldn't be convenient, especially with non-stop flights to Singapore from New York and San Francisco now an option.
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Originally Posted by sleuth
(Post 29866920)
Has Ed blamed dropping HKG on Emirates yet? |
Originally Posted by ethernal
(Post 29866144)
Too much competition. Osaka has very little US origination competition. Hong Kong has too much, so they will offload this low margin route to HKG via the KE joint venture..
1. DL has had a monopoly on the route the whole time. CX or Hong Kong Air didn’t jump in. 2. DL doesnt have any other HKG flights on its own metal that might cannibalize loads or yields. And it’s not some form of DOT route authority where any adjustment to metals or frequencies will be contested by rivals. 3. DL already has a sufficient domestic feeder network to support the flight (along with the rest of SEA TPAC) 4. The YVR factor is rather thin at this point. The offline leakage is minimal considering it’s a 3 hour drive plus a land border crossing. A sizable collection of Airlines serve both. 5. KIX lacks competition for good reason. There’s a total of 2 flights that aren’t beach markets - UA to SFO, JL to LAX. NW did DTW-KIX eons ago. As excited as one might be, dont be overly optimistic about SEA-KIX. It was cancelled by DL back in Nov 2013 when it was down to a 763 (someone on A.net mentioned between DL+NW this is the 3rd attempt at SEA-KIX) 6. DL has a plethora of hubs they could consider moving the flight to if they were truly keen on preserving its presence, either to strong O&D ones like LAX JFK or fortress hub super connectors like MSP DTW ATL where they will still be in a monopoly position (for the latter 3). im really curious as to the local market loyalty and/or corporate contract demands that DL deem MNL to be crucial enough to continue being flown by its own metal, but a global city like Hong Kong can be fanned out to the JV. Microsoft is the first major corporation I can think of directly impacted by this, since they have a non-trivia division in HKG that have travel needs back to the mothership on a consistent basis. Don’t really know what the scenario is over at Amazon. I can really see CX or HX launching HKG-SEA to backfill. Ditto for ANA backfilling the, in my viewpoint, inevitable switch of PDX-NRT over to PDX-ICN. One final note about MSP-ICN / HND : I think they already wanted to move HND elsewhere, but kept it on for now for the optics of “we’re in expansion mode”, then 9 months later, claim Japan’s refusal to offer a wide open HND led then to no choice but submit a route authority transfer. SEA may sound like the logical place to move it to, but I’ll go against conventional wisdom and place my bets on ATL-HND. |
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
(Post 29866890)
PMNW flew to KIX from DTW and at least earlier from JFK; I don't recall whether both routes were ever operated simultaneously.
NW also operated LAX-KIX (a carryover from an ITM route) and MSP-KIX (briefly around 2000). |
Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
(Post 29866767)
Well, I could always say Delta couldn't make it because their business-class product between Seattle-Hong Kong just wasn't competitive.
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