$2 short for status - Delta doesn't budge
May 2, 2018, 9:14 am
#31
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
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While I certainly understand why this would be upsetting to someone new, one needs to be realistic and understand that Delta and other large airlines have several thousand agents to handle the millions of customers they have. There's no way around the fact that there's going to be a lot of turnover there and keeping track of all the details and minutiae of the program is going to be challenging for these agents. You will find many similar stories on FT of people getting burned by agents giving out bad info, and it's really nothing personal or unique to Delta. I'd take this as a learning lesson and not necessarily completely write-off DL. While it might not seem fair, one really needs to learn as much about the workings and details of the program for themselves and should never rely solely on the advice of agents. If you still have questions, FT is an excellent resource as it has passengers with many years of real world experience and actual skin in the game (unlike the agents).
It's sad, but this is the reality we've come to expect from "customer service."
May 2, 2018, 9:24 am
#32
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: NC
Programs: AAConciergeKey/1MM, DL DM/2 MM, UA Gold,Hilton Diamond, IHG Plat, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 11,959
I keep a screen grab of the "Mileage Estimator" with details expanded, for every purchase. One can see this before completing the purchase, so if one forgets or buys over the phone, one can duplicate the information. The word "Estimator" is troubling, but so far these grabs have never been wrong for me. (I too track everything in a spreadsheet. I once made United 1K by $38. That's my idea of cutting it close.)
May 2, 2018, 9:59 am
#33
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,414
This. It's important to remember that DL's convoluted system is not one which most people are going to take the time to try to understand and which many people are going to easily feel confused or even duped by.
MQDs, MQMs, RDMs, medallion status, gold and platinum credit cards, bonus miles that don't count towards MQMs, MQD waivers, ST elite and elite+, program years, status matches, etc. They really have created a beast of a system that is becoming harder and harder to grasp. For many people grasping the difference between just RDM and MQM in the old system was difficult enough. A previous poster said something like doing simple arithmetic is all that is required, and that OP should have done so. Please, this thing is starting to look the US tax code!
May 2, 2018, 10:54 am
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,220
Rules are meant to be broken. It's often reasonable to expect a break in the rules.
They can even have an unpublished "grace" amount, so if you're within, say, 50 MQD of the threshhold, it will qualify. That way there's no slippery slope. But I guess they choose not to.
AA used to have a 50-mile "grace distance" for using 500-mile upgrade coupons- so if the flight distance was 1,049 miles they'd only require 2 upgrade coupons. If it was 1,051 it would be 3 coupons. (They stopped the grace amount when they stopped requiring any coupons for flights under 500 miles, probably a favorable trade.)
And DL's MQD calculations can definitely be screwy. I recently flew JFK-SLC in first and SLC-JFK in coach. The coach segment was particularly inexpensive, while the FC segment was probably 2-3x the price of that. But both legs posted with the same MQDs. They clearly know how the fare is built, but the system didn't seem to care. Frankly, it didn't matter to me, but if say the ticket crossed 12/31, this could definitely have messed someone up.
Similarly, if you have a mixed ticket with DL-marketed and partner-marketed segments, they need to allocate the dollars to the DL-marketed segment. It's not clear how they do this (I didn't bother to try and determine it in my case, as I have way more MQDs vs. MQMs relative to the status thresholds.
So, IMHO, this is why there should be some leniency/forgiveness built into the system.
They can even have an unpublished "grace" amount, so if you're within, say, 50 MQD of the threshhold, it will qualify. That way there's no slippery slope. But I guess they choose not to.
AA used to have a 50-mile "grace distance" for using 500-mile upgrade coupons- so if the flight distance was 1,049 miles they'd only require 2 upgrade coupons. If it was 1,051 it would be 3 coupons. (They stopped the grace amount when they stopped requiring any coupons for flights under 500 miles, probably a favorable trade.)
And DL's MQD calculations can definitely be screwy. I recently flew JFK-SLC in first and SLC-JFK in coach. The coach segment was particularly inexpensive, while the FC segment was probably 2-3x the price of that. But both legs posted with the same MQDs. They clearly know how the fare is built, but the system didn't seem to care. Frankly, it didn't matter to me, but if say the ticket crossed 12/31, this could definitely have messed someone up.
Similarly, if you have a mixed ticket with DL-marketed and partner-marketed segments, they need to allocate the dollars to the DL-marketed segment. It's not clear how they do this (I didn't bother to try and determine it in my case, as I have way more MQDs vs. MQMs relative to the status thresholds.
So, IMHO, this is why there should be some leniency/forgiveness built into the system.
May 2, 2018, 10:54 am
#36
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,880
This. It's important to remember that DL's convoluted system is not one which most people are going to take the time to try to understand and which many people are going to easily feel confused or even duped by.
MQDs, MQMs, RDMs, medallion status, gold and platinum credit cards, bonus miles that don't count towards MQMs, MQD waivers, ST elite and elite+, program years, status matches, etc. They really have created a beast of a system that is becoming harder and harder to grasp. For many people grasping the difference between just RDM and MQM in the old system was difficult enough. A previous poster said something like doing simple arithmetic is all that is required, and that OP should have done so. Please, this thing is starting to look the US tax code!
MQDs, MQMs, RDMs, medallion status, gold and platinum credit cards, bonus miles that don't count towards MQMs, MQD waivers, ST elite and elite+, program years, status matches, etc. They really have created a beast of a system that is becoming harder and harder to grasp. For many people grasping the difference between just RDM and MQM in the old system was difficult enough. A previous poster said something like doing simple arithmetic is all that is required, and that OP should have done so. Please, this thing is starting to look the US tax code!
May 2, 2018, 11:02 am
#37
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,414
LOL! Are you really comparing the use of something that could maim or kill you if used improperly with a travel company loyalty program? Thanks for the entertainment.
May 2, 2018, 11:07 am
#38
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: DCA
Programs: DL DM, AA EXP, various hotel
Posts: 2,227
OP may not have gone about verifying the MQD the best way, but he did try. If he hasn't tried asking customer service to try to track down a recording of the phone call, that might be my next step.
And PSA: If you're confused about any aspect of the program and need an important answer from an agent, ask via email or twitter DM. I strongly suspect that if OP had that record, Delta would be granting the exception.
May 2, 2018, 11:19 am
#39
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
It's actually quite complicated since only certain things count and there's different ways of calculating depending on how you buy the ticket, made obvious by the discussion upthread of Delta's own tool not being able to give reliable answers.
May 2, 2018, 11:43 am
#40
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,880
FF programs have become convoluted, but there are a lot of matters in society, especially financial and insurance products, that have become even more convoluted and that can have significant downside risk (like losing your house) if you don't understand what you are getting into. Unfortunately, things have gotten to the point where you need to assess the risk of everything you do (no matter how small in the grand scheme of things you think it is) and approach things carefully, like you would heavy machinery. You have to be self-reliant, read the fine print, and double-check everything that is given to you - you cannot assume anything is correct, but also have to balance the time invested with the upside/downside risk. Unfortunately, I have learned the hard way when I spent a few hours coming through a document and found calculations to be off by many thousand and many more hours fighting to get that money and I have see others learn the hard way with much worse penalties.
May 2, 2018, 11:46 am
#41
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,414
It was the only analogy I could think of FF programs have become convoluted, but there are a lot of matters in society, especially financial and insurance products, that have become even more convoluted and that can have significant downside risk (like losing your house) if you don't understand what you are getting into. Unfortunately, things have gotten to the point where you need to assess the risk of everything you do (no matter how small in the grand scheme of things you think it is) and approach things carefully, like you would heavy machinery. You have to be self-reliant, read the fine print, and double-check everything that is given to you - you cannot assume anything is correct, but also have to balance the time invested with the upside/downside risk. Unfortunately, I have learned the hard way when I spent a few hours coming through a document and found calculations to be off by many thousand and many more hours fighting to get that money and I have see others learn the hard way with much worse penalties.
FF programs have become convoluted, but there are a lot of matters in society, especially financial and insurance products, that have become even more convoluted and that can have significant downside risk (like losing your house) if you don't understand what you are getting into. Unfortunately, things have gotten to the point where you need to assess the risk of everything you do (no matter how small in the grand scheme of things you think it is) and approach things carefully, like you would heavy machinery. You have to be self-reliant, read the fine print, and double-check everything that is given to you - you cannot assume anything is correct, but also have to balance the time invested with the upside/downside risk. Unfortunately, I have learned the hard way when I spent a few hours coming through a document and found calculations to be off by many thousand and many more hours fighting to get that money and I have see others learn the hard way with much worse penalties.I just don't see the risk here, except I guess if you are taking mileage runs, then you are out the money for that trip.
May 2, 2018, 11:47 am
#42
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Somewhere
Programs: Delta Plat
Posts: 3,363
This reminds me of the time my gas station had a special free car wash with 20 dollar gas purchase.
I pumped my gas and it clicked saying it was full at 19.42. I squeezed and squeezed the pump and it got to 19.99 and wouldn't go anymore. Needless to say I was pissed but figured hey 1 cent so I figured I'd ask if I could get the wash anyway.
They denied my free car wash
I pumped my gas and it clicked saying it was full at 19.42. I squeezed and squeezed the pump and it got to 19.99 and wouldn't go anymore. Needless to say I was pissed but figured hey 1 cent so I figured I'd ask if I could get the wash anyway.
They denied my free car wash
May 2, 2018, 11:57 am
#43
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: KATL
Programs: DL DM/2MM
Posts: 2,032
May 2, 2018, 12:06 pm
#44
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: KATL
Programs: DL DM/2MM
Posts: 2,032
This reminds me of the time my gas station had a special free car wash with 20 dollar gas purchase.
I pumped my gas and it clicked saying it was full at 19.42. I squeezed and squeezed the pump and it got to 19.99 and wouldn't go anymore. Needless to say I was pissed but figured hey 1 cent so I figured I'd ask if I could get the wash anyway.
They denied my free car wash
I pumped my gas and it clicked saying it was full at 19.42. I squeezed and squeezed the pump and it got to 19.99 and wouldn't go anymore. Needless to say I was pissed but figured hey 1 cent so I figured I'd ask if I could get the wash anyway.
They denied my free car wash
May 2, 2018, 12:59 pm
#45
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MEM
Programs: Starbucks Green Card
Posts: 5,431
Yes, only certain things count towards MQDs but it doesn't require a differential equation to "calculate" it. No calculations are required at all, and it's NOT too much to expect that agents of the company have an understanding of what counts towards it. There's no secret decoder ring. People in this thread are massively overcomplicating this to make excuses for Delta here.
