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WSJ Article “JFK Turf War”; Delta expansion plans, or not?

WSJ Article “JFK Turf War”; Delta expansion plans, or not?

Old Mar 9, 2018, 7:49 am
  #16  
 
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I miss the birds crapping on me at T3
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Old Mar 9, 2018, 7:51 am
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by HWGeeks
I miss the birds crapping on me at T3

Sigh. Such a shame that it was permitted to get to that condition. It was such an architectural gem and it should have been saved.
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Old Mar 9, 2018, 9:18 am
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare
Delta has made JFK a mess. They should have built an entirely new terminal like AA did. At least T2 and T3 were connected and it wasn't nearly as bad as the bus ride and long walk to T4. Not to mention T4 is completely uninspiring. Nothing but white walls and yellow signs as far as the eye can see. Delta should be ashamed at their appalling lack of effort and creativity.
According to the internets DL doesn't own or manage T4. Yes, they are the largest carrier there, but any expansion/redesign would have to be agreed to by the onwer/operator. A quick google search shows that DL manages T2, but I'm not sure if they own it. Personally I love T4. Hate T2, it's an embarrassment to US infrastructure.

If they do expand T4 West, DL should (and most likely would) move all ops in there. Would be nice if there were an underground walkway to connect the far end of the T4 piers, but that would likely be cost prohibitive.
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Old Mar 9, 2018, 5:16 pm
  #19  
 
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Delta owns T2 (from National via PanAm) and owned T3 (via PanAm). I know that this isn't the cooperative thing to do, but T1 is in a bind - yeah they want to expand, but Delta could work with T4 to expand into the T3 area (not sure if the land is still DL land or how that works) and use T2 to block T1 until they get what they want to the point that T1 has to live with what they've got.
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Old Mar 9, 2018, 8:35 pm
  #20  
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Originally Posted by HDQDD
According to the internets DL doesn't own or manage T4. Yes, they are the largest carrier there, but any expansion/redesign would have to be agreed to by the onwer/operator. A quick google search shows that DL manages T2, but I'm not sure if they own it. Personally I love T4. Hate T2, it's an embarrassment to US infrastructure.

If they do expand T4 West, DL should (and most likely would) move all ops in there. Would be nice if there were an underground walkway to connect the far end of the T4 piers, but that would likely be cost prohibitive.
That's a shame. We used to have nice architecture in the US. T4 is the epitome of a big, boring, blob of a building. It is neither practical or pretty.
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Old Mar 9, 2018, 10:23 pm
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by manacit
Terminal 2 is an awful experience,
What exactly is awful about it, or more awful than other Delta terminals? It is not intrinsically worse than, say, the Delta concourse at DCA, or Pier D at BWI; for that matter, it is not intrinsically worse than the Delta operations at PHX, PBI or FLL, or for that matter, SFO (leaving the beautiful new club there aside). The SkyClub there is somewhat interesting in that one can sit in the back and have an open air look at the departure gates; also, the men's room there is much more spacious than the club at DCA.

They clearly could put up a midfield terminal on the footprint of the former PanAm Worldport. The other thing the Big D could do is have an airside shuttle to Terminal A.
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Old Mar 9, 2018, 10:24 pm
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare


That's a shame. We used to have nice architecture in the US. T4 is the epitome of a big, boring, blob of a building. It is neither practical or pretty.
Other than the Skydeck at the T4 club, I tend to agree with you.
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Old Mar 9, 2018, 10:54 pm
  #23  
 
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The last time I flew into JFK was in 2012 when T3 was still around and miserable. But, I really wish that someone would do what's being done for ORD for JFK. That airport needs help.
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Old Mar 9, 2018, 11:29 pm
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by SJC ORD LDR
The last time I flew into JFK was in 2012 when T3 was still around and miserable. But, I really wish that someone would do what's being done for ORD for JFK. That airport needs help.
Cuomo, theoretically, is trying to.
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Old Mar 10, 2018, 4:44 am
  #25  
 
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T4 is managed and owned by Schpol, as in AMS. Delta got T4 with NWA.
It was pretty nice and much like MAS unitl the big expansion. I hate that mile long walk. They are turning into ATL.
I also don't understand the TSA scheme They close Pre-check at 20:00, which is really annoying if you have a late evening TATL
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Old Mar 10, 2018, 8:01 am
  #26  
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Originally Posted by ty97
Cuomo, theoretically, is trying to.
Indeed, there's a telling detail in the story from the OP's original link:

JFK has six terminals, each of which is managed by individual airlines or terminal operators. The Port Authority has budgeted $1 billion for the airport expansion, with the expectation that the private sector will provide the remaining $9 billion.

The sad part is that $10 Billion, given all that's wrong across the entirety of the JFK experience, isn't going to go very far. LHR Terminal 5 opened ten years ago, took 20 years to build, is designed for 35 million passengers (JFK handled more than 60 million last year, and Delta alone 16 million), and cost GBP 4 Billion. These are private equity owners and listed operators at JFK, not civic-minded non-profits.
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Old Mar 10, 2018, 11:05 am
  #27  
 
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T4 is just too long. I hate the walk. Also Pre Check security shuts down so early in the ending. I don’t get it. I just flew out of T2 - what’s not to like about it? It’s small, clean, has clear, no long walks to gates.
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Old Mar 10, 2018, 12:48 pm
  #28  
 
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Sadly with AA likely to de-hub JFK sooner rather than later, DL has no motivation to make significant further improvements. They own the NYC market for now.
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Old Mar 10, 2018, 2:34 pm
  #29  
 
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by AANYC1981
T4 sucks.....I have no issues with T2
I do like both T4 & T2. If I have time I rather be at T4 because it does offer more options to pass the time.

T2 is great because it solves most of the problems that T4 has:
T2 is usually not too crowded, security is quick, short distance to gates, a nice and uncrowded Sky Club.

I think I will miss T2 once it is gone. Hopefully is sticks around for many more years.
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Old Mar 10, 2018, 4:28 pm
  #30  
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It is really mind numbing that cities like ATL, SEA, DEN, etc can have world class airports with all concourses under the same roof but major cities like LA, DC, NYC, and Boston are just a mess of various terminals. They should be ashamed.
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