Summend

Saw the post related with SkyMiles partner award ticket VN&GA today and very impressed with the help and insightful advice provided by folks here. Hence, I want to post my question here and hope someone could help. I have read all the related thread regarding the skyteam partner award search and could not find an answer.

I want to book an award ticket from SEA to TLV in business. Delta.com gives several routing options, including SEA-LHR-AMS/CDG-TLV, in which the first segment is operated by VS, and the latter ones are operated by AF/KL. Also, neither of the routing is a "published fare" since I cannot find the fare in EF and neither of the routing is in sale. Delta.com prices it at 85000 miles plus some minor taxes and fees.

The award sounds great, only with one catch. The final leg would arrive in TLV at either 2:20 AM or 4:50 AM, which is not an ideal time for me and the intra-Europe narrowbodies are not that good either. Hence, I am looking for something else. I found a routing as SEA-LHR-SVO-TLV, as the first segment in VS and the latter two in SU. LHR-SVO-TLV's award availability can be confirmed in EF and Aeroflot website. However, the Delta agent cannot see the award space on these 2 SU flights. I also tried to phone up SU, the SU agent said these two flights are available in O class. However, Delta, FlyingBlue, and Korean Air Skypass agents cannot see the space.

Someone points out to me earlier that this might have something with the married segment award pricing. So I made another test. I tried to search AMS-TLV on Delta.com and the website shows a routing AMS-SVO-TLV is available. Both EF and SU website confirm the award space. However, the DM agent firstly could see the space, but she could not book it as "it is no longer available" and the website was outdated. HUCA, and another agent gave the same response.

So my questions:

1. Is SU restricting award redemptions for partners?
2. Does Delta still allow segment-by-segment construction for a single itinerary and price accordingly? i.e. if the agent was able to find award space on all segments in SEA-LHR-SVO-TLV, would the price be 85000 miles? I tried to build the trip segment-by-segment in 2016 and the agent priced it correctly but I am not sure about the current situation given the complicated nature of the program.
3. Suppose SU applies married segments logic for partner awards and AMS-TLV is available in SU, will the Delta agent be able to construct an itinerary using two broken fares? For example, SEA-LHR-AMS + AMS-SVO-TLV, both are shown available in Delta.com.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated and thank you very much!

CPMaverick

1. Not that I am aware of. Can you see the SU flights individually on DL.com? Your post is a little confusing because you went from talking about LHR-TLV to talking about AMS-TLV search. If you can see the flights individually, they are available to partners.
2. As you've read elsewhere, yes it is sometimes possible. Since DL doesn't have an award chart, there is no way to tell what any award should cost.
3. As far as I know, this issue has nothing to do with SU and SU won't be applying married segments to any award on DL. This is purely a DL issue (assuming the SU award flights are available individually).

Summend

Sorry for the confusion. Firstly I tried to book the LHR-TLV routing and uses the AMS-TLV as alternative (both of them failed). Yes, I can confirm that all flights (namely LHR-SVO, SVO-TLV, AMS-SVO, SVO-TLV) are available respectively in SU's website and EF. However, Delta.com cannot get these flights, only AMS-TLV search would yield the SU flights.

At first I also think it is an issue with Delta IT. However, the fact that KLM/AF and KE cannot see the award space neither although SU's agent, website and EF can see the space makes me really confused.

3Cforme

2. No. Availability of AMS-SVO-TLV isn't relevant to your desired SEA-TLV itinerary.

3. You can probably construct this online yourself by using multi-city search. You should expect it to price as two awards, USA-Europe + Europe-TLV.

Even if DL is inhibiting SEA-TLV it might not be inhibiting PDX-TLV or YVR-TLV. A short positioning flight or Amtrak ride could beat additive award pricing.

Summend

I tried the multi-city search and it returned as an error...
Yes, PDX and YVR-TLV do have some other routing options for me, but still no SU flights available. Thanks for the insights.

RealHJ

If you do not see the SU flights when searching by segment (you have to search segment by segment to get any meaningful results on dullta.com), then they are 99% likely not available, as DL does show SU flights online, so if it's not there, it's most likely not there. To be sure you can see if you can get an agent to do long-sell, if you can find one willing. That is the one way to find out for sure.

I wouldn't be surprised if SU has started blocking award inventory to other airlines, as so many other airlines are doing already (GA, VN now as of late, KE for a while, and I think a few others also - e.g. KE has the Mon-Thu 1O/2X limit per flight). So, if SU has O available to its own FFP members, it doesn't mean it's available to others. Esp. if on airfrance.us FB search also you don't see the SU flights when searching by segment, then 99.9% likely they are not available outside of SU's FFP.

Another way to be sure is to search for other dates (like 330, 331 days out). If you see it then but not for your dates, well it really is N/A. If you never see any SU flights, then there might be an issue with it not showing.

3Cforme

Do you see a DL or SU thru fare SEA-TLV on ExpertFlyer that allows your routing and carriers SEA-LHR-SVO-TLV? If not, continuing to press this with Delta is a waste of time IME. It won't price as a single award.

RealHJ

Not necessarily. Revenue fares generally have little relation to awards, unless it's an AA award.

However, if it is over MPM between SEA and TLV, then, however, it will not price right. So, checking MPM would be wise.

And of course individual flight availability. To me it seems like the SU flights simply are not available on the dates the OP wants. So, unless OP chooses to book on dates with availability, anything about routing is irrelevant anyhow, as there is no inventory available to book.

3Cforme

I'm not sure how one could check MPM without a published fare.

Maybe your experience is different but I've never found a Delta award for intercontinental travel (partner or DL metal) that didn't have a relevant published fare between origin and destination airports. And I have looked.... a lot.

There are several references to published fares in this (now obsolete, with Nov. '14 search engine and rule changes) lengthy award help thread. mtkeller seemed to have a comprehensive grasp of the often-inferred redemption rules.

The Definitive "How To Search for Low Tier Business Awards"

RealHJ

ExpertFlyer can be used to look up MPM between points X and Y. If I am not mistaken, MPM is published by IATA or some such body and is not airline or routing specific.

There are certainly restrictions that DL has on routing (e.g. can't go to Australia via Asia now, can't go to Asia through Europe), even when there is a published fare in place. So, there are routing restrictions and limitations, but it's not as well documented like it is for AA. It may often line up with published fares, but based on my experience it's not a 1:1 relation for published fare (just because there is a published fare, doesn't mean DL will price it as a single through award; the contrary is also sometimes true). To be honest, I haven't really looked at published fares vs. award routing that much, as it has frankly never really come into play.

Summend

Yes, I know for some awards Delta have restrictions that the award routing must be in a publish fare. However, for the award SEA-TLV, the Delta.com would return a result as SEA-LHR-CDG-TLV (VS+AF+AF), which is also not a routing allowed in publish fare (assuming the EF database is complete). Hence, it looks like the restriction does not apply to this city pair.

Also, the routing SEA-LHR-SVO-TLV is within the MPM between SEA and TLV.

Summend

The weird thing is that when searching segment by segment, AMS-SVO and SVO-TLV would not be available in delta.com. However, if searching AMS-TLV, there would be an option AMS-SVO-TLV available in SU (although the agent cannot book that). I am not sure if this is some computer glitch or has anything to do with married segments logic.

RealHJ

Phantom availability. It is not really available then.

That is a common problem with SU, same as with several other airlines. dullta.com will show phantom availability, and often yes it won't show for individual flights (then the availability is more accurate - segment by segment), but will for connections (then it seems not to be using real time availability). It's same with MU, CZ and I think some other airlines also. O&D searches show availability that is not really there. If you search segment by segment, then the flights don't know - which is a clear indication that is it N/A. (There is NO "married segment" logic in use if there is no DL flight in your itinerary.)

Has been so for a few years, I know from personal first hand experience. What you see online in terms of SU flights is only bookable a fraction of time. To be more certain of availability, search segment by segment.

Try it for other dates (for award flights, you have to have a few weeks if not months +/- flexibility).