Delta Wants To Be 797 Launch Customer
#61
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The Airbus is a very cheap plane to acquire. I'm not sure what more there is to say about that. Airbus gave Eastern Airlines A300's to try out for free and then gave them cheap leases. Delta bought the A350 because they said the 787 was too expensive. This is nothing new. Airbus was directly subsidized from the beginning and cheap prices is how they were able to penetrate the market. Boeing won one ULCC order, Ryanair. Airbus dominates the ULCC segment.
and no. Delta bought the A350 because all Boeing could offer was 787 delivery slots that started in 2019 and offered 77Ls since they didn't have any early slots. Price was about the same, but the A350 came faster (allowing for a faster 744 phase out) as well as a more lucrative MRO deal on the engines.
#62
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Delta is paying more per tail for 321s than 739s. Only slightly but still.
and no. Delta bought the A350 because all Boeing could offer was 787 delivery slots that started in 2019 and offered 77Ls since they didn't have any early slots. Price was about the same, but the A350 came faster (allowing for a faster 744 phase out) as well as a more lucrative MRO deal on the engines.
and no. Delta bought the A350 because all Boeing could offer was 787 delivery slots that started in 2019 and offered 77Ls since they didn't have any early slots. Price was about the same, but the A350 came faster (allowing for a faster 744 phase out) as well as a more lucrative MRO deal on the engines.
#63
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Well I hope you will share that with Boeing. I would hate for them to waste all that time and money on something that won't sell well. I'm sure your market studies will put theirs to shame. BTW, what do you think of the A330neo? It certainly looks to be a dog in terms of sales.
#65
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So if the price difference between the 739 and 321 was negligible then why not just go with all 321's? No need to further complicate a complicated fleet.
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#67
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Perhaps but I wasn't aware of any long wait for the 320 series with them being cranked out at three facilities. No doubt I highly prefer Boeing but it really makes sense for Delta to go with Airbus from this point forward. The fleet will be heavily weighted with Airbus and it just doesn't make any financial sense to operate a mixed fleet if you don't have to. Delta doesn't even use Boeing aircraft in their advertising anymore. I think that says a lot.
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Well I hope you will share that with Boeing. I would hate for them to waste all that time and money on something that won't sell well. I'm sure your market studies will put theirs to shame. BTW, what do you think of the A330neo? It certainly looks to be a dog in terms of sales.
A long series of misteps have really put Boeing behind the 8-ball. As I showed above they have been crushed in the neo vs. MAX fight (6000 units vs 4000 units, with many of Boeings sales being to outfits which may never take the planes) and they are being crushed in the larger space (the A321 vs. MAX9/10 is not really a contest). Airbus has issues (they lack a competitive plane in the space between the 190 seats on the A321 to the 275+ seats on the A350-9) but they are less severe than Boeing's issues.
I just don't think that a small twin is the answer. The plane will have high capital costs, yet the economics of small twins have never worked out well as more efficient single aisles have undercut them at the low end and the larger version then sells much better, killing off the smaller version (see 762/763, 788/789, A358/359) the only smaller version that has sold relatively well over time is the A332, but there the neo version has not sold well (only HA bought it). I just think the 797 will end up being a nitch A/C, and you don't spend $15B to develop a nitch A/C.
A well written piece on the limits of the small widebody approach is here: https://leehamnews.com/2017/05/10/ai...ll-boeing-797/ feel free to rebut it, if you can.
It is an interesting question why DL - having ordered a lot of 739ers went with a similar sized A/C from airbus. Perhaps it was a timing issue, perhaps Airbus offered a price that was too good to be passed up to get their foot in the door (the original 30 were ordered with the 330s), but at this point Delta has kept ordering the Airbus and (other than using up credit with Boeing) not the 739er. Everything I hear says that the Airbus is preferred by passengers, and this is what Delta had to say about the most recent order:
“The A321 is fast becoming a favorite aircraft of our customers and employees,” said Delta senior vice president of supply chain management and fleet Greg May. He said the operating economics and capacity for customers “make it a great fit” for domestic flights. Delta again adds to order for Airbus A321 jets
#69
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There was also the 787 settlement which likely affected the 737-900ER order pricing. Plus they even topped up that order from the initial one.
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The most common phrase during initial Airbus training is "what's it doing?". It is easier for a former Airbus pilot to transition a Boeing than for a former Boeing pilot to transition to an Airbus. An airplane should behave like an airplane and do as it is told to. But we've been down that rabbit hole before. No need to revisit it.
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#73
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sure. I'm a major airline pilot. I've flown with countless other pilots that have flown both. It makes no difference which one you fly first. The hardest part of the transition is the completely different FMS. Someone that has spent 10 years on a boeing transitioning to airbus is going to have the exact same problems as someone that has spent 10 years on an airbus switching to boeing.
#74
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https://www.quora.com/How-is-the-Boe...the-Airbus-320
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/comm...airbus.104925/
#75
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Well I didn't just pull it out of my rear.
https://www.quora.com/How-is-the-Boe...the-Airbus-320
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/comm...airbus.104925/